So what's the International Holdup?

[joeybaseball]

I've been a longtime faithful fan of the team.  Have seen the good and the bad.

I heard YEARS ago now that we had this problem with a major scout or something in Latin America, doing some underhanded shenanegins that blew away our international presence. Okay. How long ago was that now? When can we get back to it? Whats the holdup? 

 

The money for development? Thats hard to believe that 29 other teams can fund their efforts in Latin America, and we cannot. Or is it we are not to be trusted any longer in Latin America? Okay accept for signing ONE guy, Baldoquin last year, but nothing before or since.

 

And what about an Asian presence? Why is it we can plan on never being mentioned as a suitor for anyone coming out of Japan,or even Korea? We watch assets ready to be picked up from overseas, we have needs, but we are strangely silent.That obviously can't be about money, can it, since a lot of these players end up being real bargains.

The FO has been consistantly silent in that area for.... well, ever. Whenever the question is posed to our player development or FO in interviews I've seen, its always a "not a real answer" answer.

 

 

Is it Moreno? Really? Not interested, not a believer in the value? Is he blind? Is anyone in the FO brave enough to stand up and say something? Okay maybe they already have, and got negative feedback. But I don't know that.

 

So some scouting official blew it, what, 10 years ago? and we still can't recover? Its blowing me away, and I honestly haven't heard a solid answer. If its Arte, somebody say so,and I'll just shut up and be ticked about that.

Unbelievable.

 

 

[Docwaukee]

the rules have changed and the opportunity to acquire international talent at will by just throwing money at it is no longer available.  that ship has sailed.  I am not sure why he chose not to endeavor into the asian market, but I do think is has to do with money.  The Angels budget has a disproportionately large amount of money allocated to the major league roster vs everything else including scouting and player development relative to other teams.  It's the part of baseball he hasn't figured out yet.    

[Angel Oracle]

Will this all start to change when Hackilton's contract finally ends?

[Second Base]

The Angels just rebuilt the Dominican Academy. That should help revitalize their Latin American presence. But our scouts just aren't well known or trusted down there yet, so high profile prospects either need to be paid considerably more by us, or we need to find ones that other teams aren't pursuing as hard.

The Dipoto regime begged and begged for more money to establish an international presence, but frequently were turned down. I think Eppler will be bigger on Asia than we had before.

[joeybaseball]

But our scouts just aren't well known or trusted down there yet, so high profile prospects either need to be paid considerably more by us, or we need to find ones that other teams aren't pursuing as hard.

 

 

I can't believe we haven't had a large turnover of scouts since the incident that took us out.

Edited December 19, 2015 by joeybaseball

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

[Inside Pitch]

I can't believe we haven't had a large turnover of scouts since the incident that took us out.

 

We did -- pretty much everyone was gone..   It wasn't a lack of turnover -- it was more that there wasn't an influx of guys to replace them.   They literally did nothing for a few years.  As a side note, my buddy in the Yankees org says the Angels have been able to snake some of their international guys and someone from the Marlins ..  or maybe it was one from the Yanks and a couple from the Marlins.   Either way, signs of life..   

Edited December 19, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[joeybaseball]

 As a side note, my buddy in the Yankees org says the Angels have been able to snake some of their international guys and someone from the Marlins ..  or maybe it was one from the Yanks and a couple from the Marlins.   Either way, signs of life..   

 

So there may be hope yet. I will be elated if during one year, they sign more than one notable international prospect or player.

 

[KevinJ14]

In my opinion, I think it is right to be hesistant on Japanese players. 

 

Not racist, but I have an interesting take on them. I don't have time to type it all out right now, so I'll explain when I can.

[Second Base]

In Latin America, there's a great deal of trust involved. Trainers that act as second fathers for these kids know which scouts to look for, which ones to contact. Mothers and fathers need to trust someone before sending their 16 year old away.

When you start from scratch, all you get are other teams's leftovers. Eventually, if you spend enough money and develop enough players into major leaguers, your team will start competing for the bigger impact prospects.

The Angels had the big turnover, but what most don't know is that they fired all their scouts again as recently as 2011. I think we're just now beginning to reestablish ourselves as a legitimate presence and the new facility on the other side if the island probably had a lot to do with it.

[Inside Pitch]

The Angels had the big turnover, but what most don't know is that they fired all their scouts again as recently as 2011. I think we're just now beginning to reestablish ourselves as a legitimate presence and the new facility on the other side if the island probably had a lot to do with it.

 

Jerry brought in all his people -- they then decided Baldoquin was worth missing out on Vladdy Jr for....   Someone the team wouldn't have had to get to trust them.

[Angel Oracle]

In Latin America, there's a great deal of trust involved. Trainers that act as second fathers for these kids know which scouts to look for, which ones to contact. Mothers and fathers need to trust someone before sending their 16 year old away.

When you start from scratch, all you get are other teams's leftovers. Eventually, if you spend enough money and develop enough players into major leaguers, your team will start competing for the bigger impact prospects.

The Angels had the big turnover, but what most don't know is that they fired all their scouts again as recently as 2011. I think we're just now beginning to reestablish ourselves as a legitimate presence and the new facility on the other side if the island probably had a lot to do with it.

Where would the new facility be located?

I ask because I went on a very recent cruise that had two Dominican stops in the southern end at Casa DeCampo and Samana.

[floplag]

<sarcasm>do we actually have an international scouting team? </sarcasm>

[Ohtaniland]

I believe that Chuck and Jeff are working on picking up a Big Splash from Cuba. Stay tuned.

 

 

[Lou]

Ok, let's try this one more time. Perhaps I'll finally get an answer to my question (everyone coincidentally disappears every time I've asked this before):

What is our international budget and how does that compare to the other 29 organizations?

Anyone ?

[Lou]

I believe that Chuck and Jeff are working on picking up a Big Splash from Cuba. Stay tuned.[/size]

 

 

The guy front and center in the pic looks like a good catching prospect. Scioscia will love his squat.

Is that Don Baylor's grandson in the back?

[Mark68]

Customs

[Lou]

Ok, let's try this one more time. Perhaps I'll finally get an answer to my question (everyone coincidentally disappears every time I've asked this before):

What is our international budget and how does that compare to the other 29 organizations?

Anyone ?

Still nothing, eh?

We here @ AW are instituting a ban on making those comments until someone provides the board with some factual data.

4.11 year ban for breaking the rule

[Ohtaniland]

Still nothing, eh?

We here @ AW are instituting a ban on making those comments until someone provides the board with some factual data.

4.11 year ban for breaking the rule

Donald Trump can answer all of your questions on that. You and Arte are not on his Christmas list.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Lou, truthfully, I don't believe anyone has that info. And with our Dominican issues previously, I think it kind of went out of sight out of mind.

[Chuck]

We did -- pretty much everyone was gone..   It wasn't a lack of turnover -- it was more that there wasn't an influx of guys to replace them.   They literally did nothing for a few years.  As a side note, my buddy in the Yankees org says the Angels have been able to snake some of their international guys and someone from the Marlins ..  or maybe it was one from the Yanks and a couple from the Marlins.   Either way, signs of life..   

 

 

We need to do another live chat with Ric Wilson and GRILL him on this. 

[Mark68]

According to Baseball America, in 2014, we were 24th out of 30.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2014-international-spending-team/

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

This was taken from here: http://www.sbnation.com/2011/11/22/2576566/mlb-labor-deal-cba

It doesn't say what the Cap/Maximum is just that each team after their record from the previous year will have More or Less $$.

<sup><sub>Under the new labor agreement, international free agents signings will be subject to a tax much like the one for amateur draft bonuses. For the 2012-2013 signing season, teams will have the same international signing bonus pool. In later years, the teams with the worst records the prior year will have $5 million to spend in signing international players. Teams with the best records will get only $1.8 million. Beginning in the 2012-2013 off-season, teams will be able to trade "cap room" to spend more in the international market.

So, with the figure posted previously it shows we spent 1.9M and if that was 2014 we had the Best record in Baseball.</sub></sup>

Edited December 22, 2015 by SlappyUtilityGuy

[AngelsLakersFan]

We need to do another live chat with Ric Wilson and GRILL him on this. 

 

If I was Ric I'd be awfully hard to get a hold of right now.

[AngelsFanSince86]

 

In my opinion, I think it is right to be hesistant on Japanese players. 

 

Not racist, but I have an interesting take on them. I don't have time to type it all out right now, so I'll explain when I can.

 

I'm not a fan of Japanese pitchers, specifically.  They certainly have talent, but by the time they sign here their arms are ready to fall off.  Tanaka had thrown about 1300 professional innings in Japan after throwing about 200 innings a year since he was 18.  Yu had thrown 1200 and Maeda has thrown 1500.  I know with the exception of Maeda that it doesn't look like an excess of innings, but that doesn't take into account how much they are put through before they are even 18.  I've read about pitchers who throw 200+ pitches consecutive days.  They are worked like crazy before they are 18 and then start throwing 200 inning seasons at the professional level immediately.  They are never given time to mature.  They are pushed to the limit every year starting at a very young age.  Its no wonder Tanaka and Darvish have had so many issues staying healthy.  Iwakuma has been very durable actually considering he had over 2000 professional IP prior to last year.

 

Japan produces some great pitchers, but by the time they get here the chance of them staying healthy very long are slim to none.  You pay a decent amount though because of their success when they are healthy.  Teams are willing to take the chance because they know the talent usually translates.

 

Edit:  the comment about 200+ pitches in consecutive days refers to high school pitchers.

Edited December 22, 2015 by AngelsFanSince86