Would you trade

[TroutField]

Maybe we know it is a fact.

Adam, I don't understand how you can know it's fact unless you personally know John Hart and he told you they best package he could have gotten and accepted was Sean Newcomb straight across for him. Can you elaborate how you can say something like that and say it's truth?

[IEAngelsfan]

You will have to take our word for it. 

Yeah, have we steered you wrong before?

[tdawg87]

Would rather the Angels try to pry Jake Lamb away from Arizona.

[Adam]

Adam, I don't understand how you can know it's fact unless you personally know John Hart and he told you they best package he could have gotten and accepted was Sean Newcomb straight across for him. Can you elaborate how you can say something like that and say it's truth?

 

I can't elaborate but you're close

[TroutField]

I can't elaborate but you're close

Cool. well nice to know this team is just giving away players. Ellis would have been nice depth in AA this year and we probably could have gotten a decent prospect back for Aybar. Being a fan of this team has been very frustrating lately

Edited December 14, 2015 by AngelintheTroutfield

[Docwaukee]

I have a low perception of Simmons? Have you read a single thing I have said about him? Or are you doing your thing and talking out of your ass again? I understood the trade and defended it from the beginning, that doesn't mean I can't get more information, from much more credible sources and change my opinion of whether or not it is an overpay on the Angels part. I still am happy my team has Simmons, we just could have had him for less.

It's funny because the more I see about the cost of young, controlled talent in trade, the more I am starting to realize there is a trickle down from the cost on the free market.  

 

A young, controllable asset that has at least a mildly established major league track record -regardless if pitching or position player -  is the ultimate mlb currency.  

 

 

 

If Simmons were a free agent entering his 26 yo season as a 4 WAR SS, he'd cost 20mil per at least.  Look at the extension Crawford got upon entering his 29yo season with a breakout offensively.  

 

The best example is that of Jason Heyward.  25mil per for 8 years for a solid OFer because of his age.  Look at what Atlanta ended up with for him once everything shook out.  

 

It still feels like an overpay, but as the cost of acquisition goes up, we could end up being even better off 2-3yrs from now.  You take the risk of Simmons defense dropping off some, but you also get the potential benefit if he improves offensively.  A reasonable thing to happen.  

 

I still don't love the deal for 2016, but they probably figured it was going to be a lot tougher to fill that spot with a good player in 2017 and that they could use the free agent market and existing assets to help for next year otherwise.  

[ettin]

Something tells me he's just being comedic Troutfield....

[Adam]

I wish

[TroutField]

Something tells me he's just being comedic Troutfield....

I mean he's just some dude on the internet but who am I to doubt who he knows and who he talks to? Not that I believe what he's saying

Edited December 15, 2015 by AngelintheTroutfield

[Stradling]

I can verify that he is telling the truth.

[wopphil]

I don't think it matters that Eppler paid more than Atlanta was willing to accept. Eppler couldn't possibly have known the minimum return Atlanta would require, nor does the fact that he paid more make it a bad trade. And for all we know, Atlanta may have accepted less than Eppler was willing to pay.

[UndertheHalo]

i think you guys should remember that apparently 20 teams looked in on Simmons, does that mean 20 teams were seriously in talks for him ... Probably not, but it seems likely that there was a decent market for him.  I don't think the low ball tactic would have worked out well for us.  

Edited December 15, 2015 by UndertheHalo

[ten ocho recon scout]

www.theinsideofmybrain.com

like most random links i click on, i opened that and saw naked women

[Angel Oracle]

Need to build the rotation the next two seasons around Richards, Heaney, and Skaggs.

[Docwaukee]

like most random links i click on, i opened that and saw naked women

I forgot to put NSFW

[Angel Oracle]

Newcomb isn't going to get you a MOTO bat or stud frontline starter.

Scouts question whether his command issues in the minors will translate to success as a starter in the big leagues.

True, although there's always the chance that some wild kid with great stuff harnesses it and becomes Koufax lite.

Simmons will help the defense significantly, as Aybar was declining.

[tomsred]

I don't think it matters that Eppler paid more than Atlanta was willing to accept. Eppler couldn't possibly have known the minimum return Atlanta would require, nor does the fact that he paid more make it a bad trade. And for all we know, Atlanta may have accepted less than Eppler was willing to pay.

 

I think it has worked out well doing that trade first.  My belief is that we will still get a darn good left fielder, improve 2B, and find a reliever or two before mid-March.  If he goes after Simmons after we make those improvements, the deal doesn't get done because Simmons would have been traded elsewhere, or Arte got tired expanding his budget and said "no".  Then, how would we be able to get an above average SS on the free agent market next year?

Edited December 15, 2015 by tomsred

[IEAngelsfan]

like most random links i click on, i opened that and saw naked women

I can imagine guys trying to click on that link multiple times and getting frustrated.

[Troll Daddy]

I have a low perception of Simmons? Have you read a single thing I have said about him? Or are you doing your thing and talking out of your ass again? I understood the trade and defended it from the beginning, that doesn't mean I can't get more information, from much more credible sources and change my opinion of whether or not it is an overpay on the Angels part. I still am happy my team has Simmons, we just could have had him for less.

You can believe what ever you want ... CHILLAX

[Second Base]

Frazier is going to require a MONSTER of a package, likely almost as large as the one that netted Shelby Miller or Craig Kimbrel.  

 

So if the Angels wanted to pull off that trade, they'd need to meet every single one of Cincy's needs, with volume.  They need young pitching, so Skaggs OR Tropeano.  They'd need a replacement 3B so Kubitza or Cowart.  They'll be needing more bullpen depth soon, so either Bedrosian or Morin.  And from the looks of things, they'll also be needing a 2B or OF soon, so perhaps Baldoquin or Hinshaw.   On top of all that, they need to find a way to offset the lack of quality in their prospects, by adding international bonus slot money. 

 

So the type of package it would take to not only outbid our competition, but get Cincy to say yes, it probably something along the lines of....

 

Nick Tropeano, Kaleb Cowart, Cam Bedrosian, Chad Hinshaw and international bonus slot money equating roughly $200,000. 

 

So that would net the Reds a mid-back rotation starter, a possible starting 3B, a potential shut down RP, a 4th OF with the potential to start and a very solid Latin American prospect. 

 

If you can say yes to that deal, then sure.  Personally, I'd do it.  I mean, the farm is already barren.  You might as well get as much talent as possible and rebuild from scratch.  Hopefully Arte will spend the money to keep the good ones here and if not, we should net a prospect from the QO. 

[Docwaukee]

Frazier is going to require a MONSTER of a package, likely almost as large as the one that netted Shelby Miller or Craig Kimbrel.  

 

So if the Angels wanted to pull off that trade, they'd need to meet every single one of Cincy's needs, with volume.  They need young pitching, so Skaggs OR Tropeano.  They'd need a replacement 3B so Kubitza or Cowart.  They'll be needing more bullpen depth soon, so either Bedrosian or Morin.  And from the looks of things, they'll also be needing a 2B or OF soon, so perhaps Baldoquin or Hinshaw.   On top of all that, they need to find a way to offset the lack of quality in their prospects, by adding international bonus slot money. 

 

So the type of package it would take to not only outbid our competition, but get Cincy to say yes, it probably something along the lines of....

 

Nick Tropeano, Kaleb Cowart, Cam Bedrosian, Chad Hinshaw and international bonus slot money equating roughly $200,000. 

 

So that would net the Reds a mid-back rotation starter, a possible starting 3B, a potential shut down RP, a 4th OF with the potential to start and a very solid Latin American prospect. 

 

If you can say yes to that deal, then sure.  Personally, I'd do it.  I mean, the farm is already barren.  You might as well get as much talent as possible and rebuild from scratch.  Hopefully Arte will spend the money to keep the good ones here and if not, we should net a prospect from the QO. 

the Reds would never do that.  The upside of all those players coming from us is not only limited, but they are all risky in terms of their major league floor.  There are so many other clubs out there that could offer a much better package.  

 

Right now, the Angels have a small package.  

[Stradling]

You can believe what ever you want ... CHILLAX

How bout you speak of stuff you know instead of talking out of your ass. You started a post telling me what my opinion of a player was, oh and it was the opposite of what my actual opinion is.

[Troll Daddy]

Maybe we know it is a fact.

Be leery of what you hear from Jerry. There is really no reason for you claiming you know something but can't disclose how you know.

We?

Edited December 15, 2015 by Troll Daddy

[Stradling]

See my post above TD

[Second Base]

the Reds would never do that.  The upside of all those players coming from us is not only limited, but they are all risky in terms of their major league floor.  There are so many other clubs out there that could offer a much better package.  

 

Right now, the Angels have a small package.  

 

I tend to agree with you, the Angels just don't have much to offer the belle of the ball.  That's pretty much the strongest package they could muster.  All we can hope for is that the quantity entices a rebuilding team like the Reds and they salivate over what they can do with the extra bonus money.  Oh, and hope that other tams don't show as much interest, or the ones that are, already blew their wad on the Simmons/Millers/Kimbrels of the world.