A 'Modest Proposal' to cut 18% from the federal budget

[wopphil]

Where is your wife on the subject? I've got a brother in law, who is working FT now, but has been unemployed for most of the past 7 years. I was very clear with her that I'll give him food, but no money and no roof if it ever comes to it.

We mostly see eye to eye on it. It is harder for her, because it is her brother and she is more sensitive to his limitations, but she doesn't respect the dependent life he lives.

I have made it clear I won't ever float him, but I mostly try to avoid the subject because it is speculation about something that may or may not become an issue. Thankfully her folks are good people and are alive and healthy, so they are her brother's first safety net.

[wopphil]

I honestly struggle as to what to think about him. On the one hand, he is really dumb (if you offered him a job for $10 an hour working down the street, or $11 working 60 miles away, he'd take the job that pays more per hour because he isn't capable of realizing on his own that there is a big cost to the job that is farther away). But on the other hand, he is the laziest person I know and totally unwilling to work hard to better his kids' lives. And I just don't respect that.

[wopphil]

standing ovation, phil.

Thanks Tank, I thought I was pretty clever.

Believe it or not, they just got these dogs despite the fact that the puppy thy had this summer died because it got parvo and they couldn't afford to treat it. Those are the types of decisions they make. It is almost like they ask themselves "what is the worst/dumbest decision we can make," and then miraculously they manage to make an even worse decision.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Unfortunately we probably all know people like this. One of my stepdaughters knew a kid who was about 17, and he was given disability payments because he fried his brain using street drugs.

[shellback]

what so ironic to me is welfare folks that are tea bag right wingers.

an apt analogy might be these welfare folks holding a gun to thier own heads and screaming: "don't move or ill shoot"

 

i have a younger brother in couer d alene idaho and its amazing how many of these ultra right wingers are are on some form of welfare and are proud of that fact. they freely talk about the welfare thier on and in a wierd way, proud of it i guess.

Edited January 17, 2015 by shellback

[JAHV76]

You gotta feel bad for the kids in this situation. Many see their parents as role models and what lessons are they learning when their parents don't seem to have any goals or are motivated to work harder to improve their financial situation..

[wopphil]

You gotta feel bad for the kids in this situation. Many see their parents as role models and what lessons are they learning when their parents don't seem to have any goals or are motivated to work harder to improve their financial situation..

This is one of the things that bothers me so much. My brother in law and his wife like to say "we make more on welfare than we would working (which is a total fiction, IMO)," but what about setting an example for your kids by going to a job and working hard everyday? His kids are going to grow up thinking poverty and laziness are acceptable.

[shellback]

work ethic can be taught, but i think it has to start early.

[mp170.6]

This is one of the things that bothers me so much. My brother in law and his wife like to say "we make more on welfare than we would working (which is a total fiction, IMO)," but what about setting an example for your kids by going to a job and working hard everyday? His kids are going to grow up thinking poverty and laziness are acceptable.

 

work ethic can be taught, but i think it has to start early.

 

I think it runs deeper than work ethic.  Everybody I've met collecting EBT, WIC, SSI, SSDI, Medicaid, Section 8 housing, whatever, seems to operate with a different moral compass than the rest of us.

 

They aren't offended by theft or fraud like an ordinary person would be (unless they are the victim), nor do they exhibit any signs of shame for their actions.  I'm not talking about regular criminals, these are people who've never been arrested and strike you as honest people.  Scamming the system is like playing a game, there's a sense of joy and achievement every time they succeed. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

This is one of the things that bothers me so much. My brother in law and his wife like to say "we make more on welfare than we would working (which is a total fiction, IMO)," but what about setting an example for your kids by going to a job and working hard everyday? His kids are going to grow up thinking poverty and laziness are acceptable.

 

It is fiction if the person is working full time. What they perhaps meant to say is that they make more on welfare than they would for the number of hours that they are willing to work. Several years ago a friend of mine had a daughter who was living on welfare (and naturally, she had one child with a boyfriend who promptly disappeared). They helped her to find a job, which she promptly quit about two weeks later, because the 20 hours per week she was working were "too hard".

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I think it runs deeper than work ethic.  Everybody I've met collecting EBT, WIC, SSI, SSDI, Medicaid, Section 8 housing, whatever, seems to operate with a different moral compass than the rest of us.

 

They aren't offended by theft or fraud like an ordinary person would be (unless they are the victim), nor do they exhibit any signs of shame for their actions.  I'm not talking about regular criminals, these are people who've never been arrested and strike you as honest people.  Scamming the system is like playing a game, there's a sense of joy and achievement every time they succeed. 

 

This is dead on. The people I have known have pretty much the same mentality as the inmates I work around on a daily basis. They see nothing wrong with laying claim to anything they can put their hands on, regardless of who it belongs to. I had a family member living in the house (WIC and welfare) who was stealing from us and she blatantly denied it. She was the only one who could have done it. Funny, since she left not another thing of value has gone missing.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Jason]

I am a superviser in my job and notice a huge work ethic difference between millenials and older generations. It's quite concerning.

[mp170.6]

I am a superviser in my job and notice a huge work ethic difference between millenials and older generations. It's quite concerning.

 

Who is worse?

[Jason]

 

Who is worse?

 Millenials. There seems to be a lot of self entitlement attitudes

[Vegas Halo Fan]

We had interviews for an administrative assistant in our outpatient mental health office. We hired a 20-something because she seemed bright, had a positive attitude and a lot of energy. Wrong. Once she got in the job she refused assignments, spent the bulk of her time flirting with male staff, adjusted her schedule without authorization and told the people in her office that she had no on-site supervisor and was answerable to no one. I fired her 30 days into the job. Her replacement is in her 40s, takes care of everything that needs to be done and anticipates needs. 

[Schildog]

Boomers in it's everyone else's fault shocker

[Jason]

We had interviews for an administrative assistant in our outpatient mental health office. We hired a 20-something because she seemed bright, had a positive attitude and a lot of energy. Wrong. Once she got in the job she refused assignments, spent the bulk of her time flirting with male staff, adjusted her schedule without authorization and told the people in her office that she had no on-site supervisor and was answerable to no one. I fired her 30 days into the job. Her replacement is in her 40s, takes care of everything that needs to be done and anticipates needs. 

Sounds about right. 

[mp170.6]

This is dead on. The people I have known have pretty much the same mentality as the inmates I work around on a daily basis. They see nothing wrong with laying claim to anything they can put their hands on, regardless of who it belongs to. I had a family member living in the house (WIC and welfare) who was stealing from us and she blatantly denied it. She was the only one who could have done it. Funny, since she left not another thing of value has gone missing.

 

Welfare/WIC/EBT/SSDI recipients who also work are an interesting bunch. 

 

There seems to be two groups.  You have the people who steal from their employer every chance they get, whether it's equipment, falsifying time cards, misusing company credit cards, etc.  They usually get fired fairly quickly. 

 

And then you have the smarter, seemingly honest folks who are sneaky in ways that nobody detects right away, if at all.  These are the people earning over $50K but still collecting EBT/WIC/SSDI, etc.  They might have a good work ethic but have strange behaviors.  One example is the juggling of multiple bank accounts, all at different banks, and frequenting these Check Cashing companies to avoid the banking system altogether.  I thought it was strange that people wouldn't want direct deposit until someone tipped me off that welfare frauds use these tactics to avoid a convenient paper trail.  On the job, it's funny how the HR department never has these employees' current address which seems to change every few months. 

 

All of this makes it difficult for the government to track down their fraud. 

[Tank]

I am a superviser in my job and notice a huge work ethic difference between millenials and older generations. It's quite concerning.

 

about ten years ago we had a meeting at our school with parents who were concerned about rising tuition costs in the high school and how they could meet those expenses. i listened to several parents decry how they couldn't continue to afford rising costs. after several minutes of this i finally chimed in. i asked rhetorically how many of their students worked. i pointed out how when our generation was in high school, we all worked. it certainly helped pay the tuition cost, but the greater benefit was it taught us how to be good workers. i don't think too many of the kids in our school today understand any of this, and not very many of them work. there are a few jobs as readers for teachers, but most of the workers i've hired over the years have been very mediocre, at best. my daughter is working for me for the second year in a row, and she seems to "get it' most of the time.

[Jason]

 

about ten years ago we had a meeting at our school with parents who were concerned about rising tuition costs in the high school and how they could meet those expenses. i listened to several parents decry how they couldn't continue to afford rising costs. after several minutes of this i finally chimed in. i asked rhetorically how many of their students worked. i pointed out how when our generation was in high school, we all worked. it certainly helped pay the tuition cost, but the greater benefit was it taught us how to be good workers. i don't think too many of the kids in our school today understand any of this, and not very many of them work. there are a few jobs as readers for teachers, but most of the workers i've hired over the years have been very mediocre, at best. my daughter is working for me for the second year in a row, and she seems to "get it' most of the time.

I remember when I was 14 and started summer break my dad telling me that this is the last summer I won't have a job. I got my 1st job at 15 and have never been unemployeed since. Of all the things that my father has taught me, my work ethic has been the most valuable. When it comes to work, somehow I feel like a loser if I am not giving 100% to my job, even if it sucks. As a supervisor the thing that really drives me nuts is people's unwillingness to take any responsibilities for their short comings.

[shellback]

i think the welfare/state aid/ ui/ etc people can be somewhat explained by criminal mind type of thinking. a self centered "whats in it for me?" kind of attitude. shunning of responsibility. lack of empathy for others. greed.

its interesting the high regard these people have for fameous criminals and politicians who have "gotten over"  on any bureaucratic system. even with little kids you sometimes see ones that break the rules and get away with it are minor heroes to the others.

unfortunately, i think our system breeds this scociopathy to some extent. alot of the most materially successful people are this way- jaimie dimon, murdoch, almost any politician. amoral, greedy with a complete lack of empathy for others.

[acro2008]

***Generalization Alert***

 

Gen "X" falls 1964-65 to 1976-1977, despite the Viet-nam war these years fall in line with Black civil rights, free love and the women's movement.  It is very suitable representing the symbol for the female chromosome X.

 

Millennials, or known as Generation "Y"(male chromosome??), there is a bit more difference of opinion within our social construct with the range of where it ended, starting around 1977-1995 but many articles claim it is reaching out to 2000 and even 2004.  Regardless,  its fits nicely within a timeframe of what may be considered the disempowerment of the male, with kids, mostly boys lazily sitting on the couch playing video games with some television "programming" seemingly aimed at exhibiting kids talking back to their parents, a huge sense of entitlement, along with a very weak father figure, usually dumb and out of shape, unlike the Gen X television and the father knows best TV presentations.

 

With no apparent, consistent or obvious section of years labeling Generation Z just yet, it is here and I'm guessing we are looking at our current young teenagers, maybe even down to new borns. Acceptance of the gay community and their ability to raise children and artificial insemination.  I find it interesting that the May 2014 issue of Time Magazine's cover suggests "the next civil rights movement" is "Trans-gender tipping point".  No X, No Y just an ambiguous  and maybe an androgynous Z.  http://time.com/135480/transgender-tipping-point/

 

 

So since the baby boomers,  the three "generations" with social constructs:  Just my opinion.

 

 

 Generally speaking, Gen X is a time of pushing for equal rights resulting in empowerment of women.

 

Generation Y(millennials) is a time we see disrespect, entitlement, video game entertainment...laziness, disempowerment of the parents but more so with a dumb ass father father figure. 

 

Generation Z, so far, is accepting it's urban male Metrosexual and also the androgynous Trans-gender acceptance.  Where are we headed? 

[Tank]

that's an interesting summation, acro.

[Spencer]

I like the direction this thread has headed, mostly because I like to bitch about my generation.

I was born in 1987.  My parents are on the older side, both born in the 1940's.

 

Both my parents worked, starting from their teens up until retiring around age 60-ish.

My dad, having owned his owned business, still isn't quite retired, but he has switched things over to online-only, and can step away at any time.

They travel.  They gamble.  They do whatever they want, whenever they want because that's what you are entitled to after decades of hard work.

 

I'm an only child.  My parents have money, property, cars, whatever.

I've been working, be it for my dad, odd jobs, college jobs, or now a real career, since I was in my early teens.

High school would end, other kids would go play video games, smoke pot, dick around, and I would be on the bus to go to work.

Saved up enough money for a truck.  Started driving to work.

I haven't asked my parents for a dime since college ended.  They paid for my education.  I have no real debt other than a condo-sized mortgage.  Paid my car off years ago.

 

The under-30 people I work with.... you should see them.  Entitled.  Brainless.  Disgusting.  All of them with college degrees in science and engineering, but most don't know the meaning of work.

They don't want to drive to LA because it's too far.  They arrive in the office at 9:00 and leave at 4:30 or 5:00.  They sit on their ass in the field and don't ask questions; they watch the contractors work.

 

I feel sad for my generation.  We have little in common.

[Adam]

I like the direction this thread has headed, mostly because I like to bitch about my generation.

I was born in 1987.  My parents are on the older side, both born in the 1940's.

 

Both my parents worked, starting from their teens up until retiring around age 60-ish.

My dad, having owned his owned business, still isn't quite retired, but he has switched things over to online-only, and can step away at any time.

They travel.  They gamble.  They do whatever they want, whenever they want because that's what you are entitled to after decades of hard work.

 

I'm an only child.  My parents have money, property, cars, whatever.

I've been working, be it for my dad, odd jobs, college jobs, or now a real career, since I was in my early teens.

High school would end, other kids would go play video games, smoke pot, dick around, and I would be on the bus to go to work.

Saved up enough money for a truck.  Started driving to work.

I haven't asked my parents for a dime since college ended.  They paid for my education.  I have no real debt other than a condo-sized mortgage.  Paid my car off years ago.

 

The under-30 people I work with.... you should see them.  Entitled.  Brainless.  Disgusting.  All of them with college degrees in science and engineering, but most don't know the meaning of work.

They don't want to drive to LA because it's too far.  They arrive in the office at 9:00 and leave at 4:30 or 5:00.  They sit on their ass in the field and don't ask questions; they watch the contractors work.

 

I feel sad for my generation.  We have little in common.

 

Good post.