Angels trade Hank Conger to Astros for C Carlos Perez and RHP Nick Tropeano

[tdawg87]

What percentage of first round picks ever play in the majors?

About 66%, or about 2/3rds.

Your point would be better stated if you said "What percentage of first round picks become regular contributors at the major league level?" In which case the number is about 40% per Baseball America. Though I suspect those numbers will steadily begin to rise over the next 10 years with advanced scouting and metrics playing a larger role.

[ettin]

About 66%, or about 2/3rds.

Your point would be better stated if you said "What percentage of first round picks become regular contributors at the major league level?" In which case the number is about 40% per Baseball America. Though I suspect those numbers will steadily begin to rise over the next 10 years with advanced scouting and metrics playing a larger role.

In addition to better scouting, the improvements in biometrics (study and evaluation of the human body in motion) and health (diets, strength training, psychological training, etc.) might make the success rate go up further too.

[ukyah]

i don't think advanced metrics can help you predraft in determining a player's major league worthiness. i think they help management in determining when to promote a player from one level to the next.

[Mark68]

how was he misused? He can't hit and is bad defensively.

He was misused in that he was used.

[moccasin]

Fangraphs likes the move for the Astros:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-astros-get-their-jose-molina/

This. Exactly what I was trying to say.

 

Of the14 Angel pitchers with 30+IP last season, 13 had a better strikeout to walk ratio with Conger behind the plate.

And many weren't even close.

Jepsen actually did better with Iannetta, but the difference was slim, and he actually had a much better ERA with Conger catching him.

[Angel Oracle]

Maybe Perez will be the heir apparent to Iannetta, after having a full season to get acquainted with the pitchers?

Edited November 7, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[Reveille1984]

Even with the framing of Conger, the Fangraphs article estimated that Hank only adds around one strike per game on average.  Which further averages out to about .13 runs saved per game if you trust Baseball Prospectus and their analytics regarding the subject.  So with him catching about 80-90 games, that adds 1 WAR over the course of a season due to framing.  Which would be great if he was tacking on that skillset to an already strong base of other skills, but that isn't really the case here. 

 

As long as Iannetta can continue to provide surplus offensive value, he is by far more valuable overall.

[CaliAngel]

NOOOOOOOOO! Hank's one of my favorites and I always dug the way he swung the bat.

 

Boo urns.

[moccasin]

Even with the framing of Conger, the Fangraphs article estimated that Hank only adds around one strike per game on average.  Which further averages out to about .13 runs saved per game if you trust Baseball Prospectus and their analytics regarding the subject.  So with him catching about 80-90 games, that adds 1 WAR over the course of a season due to framing.  Which would be great if he was tacking on that skillset to an already strong base of other skills, but that isn't really the case here. 

 

As long as Iannetta can continue to provide surplus offensive value, he is by far more valuable overall.

Where does it say that? The comment section? The article actually says,

"Take the BP numbers at face value, and the last two years, Conger’s framing has been worth more than 30 runs alone."

 

So basically, he saves 15 runs a season with his glove. You must also take in account that Iannetta's pitch framing is well below average, and if you look at the numbers, you can easily estimate that he loses about 5 to 7 runs a season.

 

That's a 20 run difference. Their difference in offense is worth about 16 to 18 runs, depending on whether you use BR or fangraphs.

So actually, Conger was worth slightly more.

 

If you add that bad hitting catchers can be pinch hit for in later innings if the team is behind, the margin becomes bigger.

[stormngt]

If Conger could net us a back end rotation starter and a MLB quality back up catcher you would have to think Kendrick can bring players

[bloodbrother]

If Conger could net us a back end rotation starter and a MLB quality back up catcher you would have to think Kendrick can bring players

 

Oh he would. Dude continues to get under-appreciated by some on here but look around the league. Lot of teams wish they could get above league average production at BOTH MIF spots(like the Angels did last year).

[Guest]

Oh he would. Dude continues to get under-appreciated by some on here but look around the league. Lot of teams wish they could get above league average production at BOTH MIF spots(like the Angels did last year).

Trading away Kendrick would be a huge mistake. Good defensive fielding at all positions is one of the the most important factor for postseason success. Even if we get back some good players back, downgrading from Kendrick to, say, Gordon Becham would be absolutely brutal. Angels are in the middle of a window of opportunity to win, now is not the time to be trading away MLB-quality players to get prospects. that time is 2016-2017 after our current window closes. 

Edited November 8, 2014 by ScottLux

[bloodbrother]

Completely agree. I'd rather they hold on to Howie and look to sign a mid tier FA starter

[ukyah]

Trading away Kendrick would be a huge mistake. Good defensive fielding at all positions is one of the the most important factor for postseason success. Even if we get back some good players back, downgrading from Kendrick to, say, Gordon Becham would be absolutely brutal. Angels are in the middle of a window of opportunity to win, now is not the time to be trading away MLB-quality players to get prospects. that time is 2016-2017 after our current window closes. 

 

 

i disagree, the way to keep a "window" open the longest is to stay young and flexible. it's perfectly fine to trade away aging cost increasing players as long as you replace them with mlb quality players, preferably young and cost controlled. if we replace howie with garbage, then that's a bad move no matter how you slice it.

Edited November 8, 2014 by ukyah

[Lou]

What could they possibly see in Hank to give up 2 good players.  No way either of the two pickups turn out to be anything more than busts.

I agree

[DMVol]

Maybe Perez will be the heir apparent to Iannetta, after having a full season to get acquainted with the pitchers?

Wow....a blind squirrel found an acorn....

[Spirit]

I agree

 

 

He's not the best old thread finder on the site for nothing, folks. 

[Lou]

Fangraphs likes the move for the Astros:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-astros-get-their-jose-molina/

For the Fangraphites:

" The Astros got one guy for two guys, giving up catcher Carlos Perez and pitcher Nick Tropeano. Perez might take over as the Angels’ backup, and Tropeano might manage to crack the Angels’ starting rotation. But the guy the Astros added is Hank Conger, and though Conger’s is by no means any sort of household name, you could say the Astros just got their Jose Molina. "

Yep, exactly like Jose

[Blarg]

What could they possibly see in Hank to give up 2 good players.  No way either of the two pickups turn out to be anything more than busts.

 

I like your wait and see attitude.

[seenoevil]

Another awesome trade by Jerry!

[yk9001]

I just went through 7 pages, and we were collectively, surprisingly right on this one.

 

I have never seen a player who cracks me up just looking at him like I do with Conger.

 

Did anyone else see him doing this spinning robot dance in the dugout this weekend after an Astros home run?

[Yellow Balloon]

This trade actually ended up affecting the top 3 teams in the AL West.  Getting Conger allowed the Astros to dump Corporan on the Rangers for a pretty high-upside class A pitcher.  Corporan was pretty bad, got hurt around the ASB, and then by the time he was healthy found himself buried on the depth chart.

[QuinlansMinion]

I like your wait and see attitude.

I didnt think anyone was stupid enough to trade anything of value for Hank Conger.  Much less a defensive catcher who will be a star in this league, and a pitcher who should be a solid #3.

[Troll Daddy]

^^^^

 

Wishful thinking ... hope you're right.

[Brent Maguire]

Conger is a totally acceptable backup catcher but I thought this was a great move at the time and it looks even better now. 

 

Conger still frame pitches really well and he actually had a 107 wRC+ this year. However, Perez showed he can probably be a 1.5-2 WAR catcher and Tropeano had his moments this year and should be a backend starter for the Angels. One of JD's better moves.