Should Jack Morris have been voted into the H.O.F.

[Halofan]

Should Jack Morris have been voted into the H.O.F.? After 15 years on the ballet He will now have to wait 3 years for the expansion vote to see if he can get in ... MLB.com had a interesting interview and article on him this morning that showed what a class act he is. He had 254 career wins falling short of the 300 win mark that is normally a lock to make the H.O.F. . In his 18 year career he won the World Series with Toronto , Detroit and Minnesota. Posting a career playoff record of 7-4 with a 3.80 era over 13 post season starts. And a 4-2 mark with a 2.96 era in 7 World Series starts.

 

  I myself was never a big Morris fan until the end of his career. In "91" I watched Morris pitch one of the best games I ever saw on the big stage. When he threw 10 innings of scoreless ball to out duel John Smoltz in game 7 of the World Series. He pitched 3 games in that series only giving up 3 runs over those 3 games. The man was a true bulldog of a pitcher and lived for the big game. Yes he fell short of the 300 win mark but in this era we may never see a pitcher with 300 wins again. In fact 254 wins is going to be a mark that may not be reached again. All I can say is Morris must of rubbed some writers wrong because many feel he should be in the H.O.F...

 

 When asked about his chances to get in on the expansion era ballot in 3 years . Morris's reply was simply.. " I hope I live that long"

Edited January 9, 2014 by Halofan

[Chuck]

Absolutely!

 

The guy was on teams that scored a ton of runs so he was asked to just throw strikes during a lot of those blowouts, which inflated his ERA.

 

Big game pitcher, has all the stats too. He deserves to get in.

[NrM]

Can someone explain to me why players make it in over time? If he didn't deserve to make it in the first year, then why the hell would he deserve to make it in 15 years later?

He had like a career ERA+ of 104. Is that hall of fame worthy? I mean cmon.

Why is it that Orel Hershiser got eliminated after one year with a career ERA+ of 112, yet jack morris deserves to be on the ballet for 15 straight years.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Poozy

[gurn67]

If he had been a Yankee, this question would be moot because he would have been in on the first or second ballot.

[floplag]

This is the thesis statement on where SABR and the pure stats guys fail.
Morris was a stud, plain and simple.. guy had more complete games than a lot of guys had wins, lol
As said he just won.. didnt care about the score.. didnt care about his own shit.. just wanted to pitch 9 and get the win... nothing else mattered.

The statheads of the world have to stop watching box scores more than the games... they are the one killing it and creating all these selfish asshat players that care more for thier stats than anything else... they have to, or it costs them money and such... its a joke as far as im concerned.

Stats have their place.. i too am a stats guy, but there is more to the game than pure stats, period.

[eaterfan]

Absolutely!

 

The guy was teams hat scored a ton of runs so he was asked to just throw strikes during a lot of those blowouts, which inflated his ERA.

 

Big game pitcher, has all the stats too. He deserves to get in.

 

Walks that score count just as much toward ERA as hits that score.

[LightTheHalo]

A class act?

 

"I don't talk to people when I'm naked, especially women, unless they're on top of me or I'm on top of them." - Jack Morris to sportswriter Jennifer Frey

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136544/index.htm

[jshep]

Nope.

[Adam]

A class act?

 

"I don't talk to people when I'm naked, especially women, unless they're on top of me or I'm on top of them." - Jack Morris to sportswriter Jennifer Frey

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136544/index.htm

 

Sounds fair

[Adam]

I say yes to HOF. 

[nate]

I had no idea he was a dancer for that long.

[eaterfan]

BTW, John Lackey has a career 108 ERA+ and two game 7 WS wins.

[Scott34]

No not even close.

[Blarg]

Can someone explain to me why players make it in over time? If he didn't deserve to make it in the first year, then why the hell would he deserve to make it in 15 years later?

He had like a career ERA+ of 104. Is that hall of fame worthy? I mean cmon.

Why is it that Orel Hershiser got eliminated after one year with a career ERA+ of 112, yet jack morris deserves to be on the ballet for 15 straight years.

Burt Blyleven would like a word with you.

[Chuck]

No not even close.

 

Well thank God they don't let high schoolers vote!

[jshep]

Supporters have tended to dismiss Morris’s high ERAs with claims that he “pitched to the score.” The research efforts of Greg Spira and Joe Sheehan have long since put the lie to this claim. In studying his won-loss record through 1993 (his second-to-last season), Spira found that Morris was just four wins ahead of his projected record based upon run support. Sheehan, who pored over Morris’s career inning-by-inning via Retrosheet, concluded: “I can find no pattern in when Jack Morris allowed runs. If he pitched to the score — and I don’t doubt that he changed his approach — the practice didn’t show up in his performance record.” Morris’s record is more a product of strong run support than it is special strategy.

 

http://mlb.si.com/2012/12/21/jaws-and-the-2013-hall-of-fame-ballot-jack-morris/

[AngelsLakersFan]

He's still 10 bWAR short of Kevin Appier who received a whooping 0.2% of the vote...

[Mark68]

Nope. It's not the Hall of Very Good.

[ukyah]

nope. i've always maintained that it's not the hall of very good.

[ukyah]

Nope. It's not the Hall of Very Good.

 

 

nope. i've always maintained that it's not the hall of very good.

 

 

no, ****ing way did that just happen.

[Mark68]

Yep.

 

Jinx, you owe me a beer.

[HaloFan85]

Nope. It's not the Hall of Very Good.

That's the main beef with many supporters of Morris and others who didn't make it - the HOF having several players that were very good, but never "great".

[xboom28x]

This is the thesis statement on where SABR and the pure stats guys fail.

Morris was a stud, plain and simple.. guy had more complete games than a lot of guys had wins, lol

As said he just won.. didnt care about the score.. didnt care about his own shit.. just wanted to pitch 9 and get the win... nothing else mattered.

The statheads of the world have to stop watching box scores more than the games... they are the one killing it and creating all these selfish asshat players that care more for thier stats than anything else... they have to, or it costs them money and such... its a joke as far as im concerned.

Stats have their place.. i too am a stats guy, but there is more to the game than pure stats, period.

 

This logic means Erstad should be a Hall of Famer

[Docwaukee]

his run support numbers over his career

 

0-2 runs of support - 3.98era, 1.331 WHIP, 1.74 SO/BB, .276 BABIP, 6.1 k/9 

3-5 runs of support - 3.54era, 1.263 WHIP, 1.70 SO/BB, .264 BABIP, 5.6 k/9

6+ runs of support - 4.24era, 1.306 WHIP, 1.99 SO/BB, .278 BABIP, 6.0 k/9

 

I have no doubt that he thought he was trying to 'pitch to the score' as his BB rate went down when he had a big lead but he actually performed about the same when he got a lot of run support as when he got almost none.  If he truly did as he was saying, his best performance category should have been when the team scored very little for him yet that's not the case. 

 

also, opposing players ops+ splits for game scenarios relative to margin from a tie game to a margin of >4 range from 98-101.  So withing 1-2% of his career avg. 

 

to me, he's not a hall of famer. 

[Ohtaniland]

No on Morris but Jack Clark however.........

 

The Hall of Fame and the Jack Clark Test - Academic Commons