What bothers me the most (RE changes)

[floplag]

I think whats come to bother me the most in recent years is how many people we see leave our organization and do better with other coaching staffs..or come to our ogranization and do worse than they should.

If there has ever been a situation that required change in the voice and message, we are it.

We have too much tlaent to be as bad as we have been over the last couple years

[shellback]

well, stand by.

i posted the same idea and was loudly told i was FOS.

i guess alot of these guys like the direction our field staff is taking the team.

[tdawg87]

I think whats come to bother me the most in recent years is how many people we see leave our organization and do better with other coaching staffs

 

You mean like Lackey, Figgins, Haren, Fuentes, MacPherson, Wood, Kotchman, Mathis, Izturis, Rivera?

[SoWhat]

well, stand by.

i posted the same idea and was loudly told i was FOS.

i guess alot of these guys like the direction our field staff is taking the team.

Not everyone is saying they like the direction the field staff is going. Everyone just doesn't see how hiring Eric Wedge is going to be any better than what we have now

[Stradling]

Thanks for handling business TDawg.

[Lifetime]

I hold off rebuttal until I see the list of players that support your assertions

[Stradling]

It's not about liking the direction of the infield management, it's not being blind to reality. Reality is, most players don't improve when they leave.

[Stradling]

I hold off rebuttal until I see the list of players that support your assertions

Their answer will be one year of Santana and one year of Rodney. I think it's bs but I'm sure you knew that.

[Mark68]

[shellback]

our field staffs results PROVE THEY ARE GOOD

[Stradling]

Shell do you really want to go through this again? You want to get rid of the manager and coaches, fine. But using this as a reason is bs. TDawg gave you a long list of players that prove this opinion is at the very least exaggerated if not outright wrong. I will say that Dante Bichette and Ken Landreaux improved after leaving the Angels.

[tdawg87]

Torii Hunter with the Angels > Torii Hunter with the Twins. I'd make an argument about Downs as well. Frieri has basically been the same.

[shellback]

thats goin back a ways.

it was most accurate when you said that my opinion is jaded because my team is losing.

i made a poor attempt to quantify an emotional response to a shit w/l record by the current field staff.

jmo, i doubt this staff would be around on most other mlb teams.

[tdawg87]

This whole argument is so overblown it's absurd.

 

Rodney is looked at as the centerpiece of this argument, but last year was a total fluke. This season his ERA was decent but his WHIP sucked and he blew 8 saves. He was also just as bad with Detroit as he was with the Angels. He's a crappy pitcher who has sucked for the vast majority of his career.

 

As for Ervin Santana, this year wasn't even his best season (that would be 2008, with the Angels). We've seen him pitch like this before, it's nothing new. When he puts up a 5.00 ERA in 2014 we'll see just how much he "improved" after leaving.

 

Walden? He was actually better with the Angels, arguably. He was certainly a good reliever this year but his numbers are pretty much identical to what he did in 2012, save for a much improved WHIP. And as I mentioned in the other thread, Downs went to Atlanta and pretty much sucked.

[Stradling]

I went way back to help prove flops point.

[Stradling]

Truth is a false stat. Did I do that right YoT?

[m0nkey]

No. The false stat line is and will always be wrong

[Docwaukee]

if the FO feels they need to replace the coaching staff because they are ineffective then fine, but the correlation to players turning to crap upon arriving or only being good after they leave is weak sauce.  even if it were slightly true, some of that blame is on the people that brought those players in or let the other go. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

You mean like Lackey, Figgins, Haren, Fuentes, MacPherson, Wood, Kotchman, Mathis, Izturis, Rivera?

 

Wells, Downs...

Edited October 4, 2013 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Angel Oracle]

I just want the GM and the manager on the same page.   Two years of conflicting views doesn't help a team, especially when it follows FOUR years of mostly GM mediocrity.

 

We need a fresh managerial voice and a fresh pitching coach voice, preferably on the same page as the GM.

FOURTEEN years and SEVEN years are increasingly proving to be more than enough time.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[fan_since79]

Well, Edmonds hit a few home runs here and there after we traded him.

 

 

 

Like...272.

[Stradling]

Yep, so there's one retired player that played much better after leaving us.

[Lifetime]

And? 

[tdawg87]

K-Rod was pretty crappy with the Mets. He's still a good reliever but he didn't improve after leaving.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say we actually have more evidence to support players getting WORSE once they leave. I haven't seen too many solid examples.

[sneaky_flute]

Vernon Wells got better...

 

 

 

for about a month