Moneyball

[DW711]

I really liked this movie the first time I watched it. Then as I'm watching it again and again on cable some things jump out at you.

 

1. Hudson, Mulder and Zito are never mentioned (they had a much bigger role in getting the A's to the playoffs than Hatteberg and Crawford), as did Chavez, Tejeda, etc. The movie makes it look like the A's had no great players left and a bunch of guys who take walks replaced them.

 

2. The Angels are never mentioned, and they just so happened to win the World Series that year doing the opposite of many of the things Beane (Brad Pitt) says in the movie....never bunt, never steal, etc.

 

3. They make the 20th game of that streak seem like the seventh game of the World Series. Didn't the Angels go 17-3 during that same stretch? And we won the seventh game of the World Series.

 

I apologize if this has been discussed on this board before.

 

That and: Game 5 was played during the day (not night)...I was there.

 

Magnante was let go by Howe, not Beane.

 

Art Howe was supposedly nothing like he was in the movie.

[Hollyw00d]

Ya the real art Howe got butthurt about how they portrayed him

[katie]

And Jonah Hill's character was not a real person

[tdawg87]

Well quite frankly with a title like that you'd expect it to cover Mike Trout and Peter Bourjos.

Or my underpants in Antarctica.

[St1ck]

Also in the movie Billy Beane had an ex-wife, and kid. In real life he is a flaming homosexual. 

[mtangelsfan]

Lifetime? Is that you?

 

Let me know when typing in all caps is anything but annoying.  Or, let me know when you come up with an original post.

[katie]

Just did a search. Can't find any other post that says that.

[stormngt]

Listen, there are a lot of butthurt angel fans on this thread, who sound ridiculous, complaining about a movie b/c it doesn't give the Angels "their due".

 

 

That said, your linked article is asinine.  Ridiculous.

 

The Bonds part:

After the move to the new park-of-many-names (originally PacBell), his PF generally--just as one might expect in a player in his late 30s--began a zig-zag but obvious decline. The single exception, of course, was the famous one-shot spike in 2001, when he shattered the home-run record. The extent to which that year was a freak, even for Bonds, is glaringly obvious from the graph above.

 

Bonds'"obvious decline" in late thirties is still so far every mortal man, and what Bonds did during the so-called "prime years" of his career. 

 

Don't insult anyone's intelligence here w that article.

His best years via ops:  Age 36, 37, 38, 39.  His ops was 1.379, 1.381, 1.278, 1.422.  How as he declining in his late thirties?

[stormngt]

Holy crap it said "based on a true story", get over it people.

The movie was based on the A's.  It is stupid to suggest the Angels should be brought into the script.  The A's won the Division with Beans "moneyball moves"  What I didn't like about the movie was neglecting the A's pitching which was far more responsible for the A's winning the division than Hatteburg and Justice.  And they neglected Tejada who was a young player and MVP.  Those moves allowed them to win, not Hatteburg, and Justice.

[ettin]

Or my underpants troutsers in Antarctica.

 

Fixed.

[DW711]

And Jonah Hill's character was not a real person

 

Yeah, but I figure everyone already knew that!

[Bashbrothers]

Listen, there are a lot of butthurt angel fans on this thread, who sound ridiculous, complaining about a movie b/c it doesn't give the Angels "their due".

 

 

That said, your linked article is asinine.  Ridiculous.

 

The Bonds part:

After the move to the new park-of-many-names (originally PacBell), his PF generally--just as one might expect in a player in his late 30s--began a zig-zag but obvious decline. The single exception, of course, was the famous one-shot spike in 2001, when he shattered the home-run record. The extent to which that year was a freak, even for Bonds, is glaringly obvious from the graph above.

 

Bonds'"obvious decline" in late thirties is still so far every mortal man, and what Bonds did during the so-called "prime years" of his career. 

 

Don't insult anyone's intelligence here w that article.

Eric Walker is anything but asinine.  He showed Bonds power spikes and used him as a case study.  The power spike isn't as crazy as people believe. There is a reason why this guy has been a consultant for thirty years.  Just because you disagree with it because of common sense most likely, doesn't make it asinine.   Nothing is common sense in data. Still, ignoring Bonds completely, it's pretty obvious you didn't read the entirety of the article. Or even that part fully.  Not only was the spike completely natural, but that was also when they changed the composition of the ball.   That explains Bonds completely.

 

Outside of the case study you'd be hard pressed to refute anything in there.  How steroids couldn't possibly help with power as they help with upperbody and the power of a swing is generated through your lower body, no variation between users/nonusers, no difference in ERA's other than when they changed the baseball.

 

Eric Walker and every reputable statistician who has ever done work on steroids has found no evidence for them helping.

[Tyler]

Steroids add confidence, as well as size and strength.

[m0nkey]

Size is debatable

[m0nkey]

The next time someone makes a baseball movie, they should run it by the brilliant people of angelswin.com. we as a whole clearly know what sells and what the general public is interested in seeing

[mtangelsfan]

The next time we want to make a post about a movie, make sure to run it by m0nkey, he's the obvious expert on what should be posted about.

[tdawg87]

His best years via ops:  Age 36, 37, 38, 39.  His ops was 1.379, 1.381, 1.278, 1.422.  How as he declining in his late thirties?

 

I just facepalmed through my skull.

[m0nkey]

Why only posts about movies? I say if you want to post, run it by me. I'm the expert on anything and know everything about everything.

[tdawg87]

Eric Walker is anything but asinine.  He showed Bonds power spikes and used him as a case study.  The power spike isn't as crazy as people believe. There is a reason why this guy has been a consultant for thirty years.  Just because you disagree with it because of common sense most likely, doesn't make it asinine.   Nothing is common sense in data. Still, ignoring Bonds completely, it's pretty obvious you didn't read the entirety of the article. Or even that part fully.  Not only was the spike completely natural, but that was also when they changed the composition of the ball.   That explains Bonds completely.

 

Outside of the case study you'd be hard pressed to refute anything in there.  How steroids couldn't possibly help with power as they help with upperbody and the power of a swing is generated through your lower body, no variation between users/nonusers, no difference in ERA's other than when they changed the baseball.

 

Eric Walker and every reputable statistician who has ever done work on steroids has found no evidence for them helping.

 

Appeal to authority?

 

Also please list these "reputable statisticians". I'm guessing they will be people I have never heard of.

[mtangelsfan]

The whole "steroids doesn't help" argument is seriously flawed. 

 

 

People, atheletes would not take them if they did not help.

[Bashbrothers]

Appeal to authority?

 

Also please list these "reputable statisticians". I'm guessing they will be people I have never heard of.

It would be the appeal to authority if there wasn't countless data I just showed through the link.   People often want to get credentials when stuff like this comes out to add validity. And it's also peer reviewed.  All important in making conclusions.  It is in fact, how we go about disproving everything else in science.  Study, find results, conclusion, rinse and repeat.

 

Professor Arthur DeVany

 

Will Carroll (Medical Effects of PED's)

 

Professors Jonathan R. Cole

[markb]

 

People, atheletes would not take them if they did not help.

 

Citing guys who wear phiten necklaces and power balance bracelets as an authority might not be the best method of supporting your argument.

[tdawg87]

Yeah I have no idea who any of those people are.

 

And as MT said, athletes aren't going to take a potentially life-threatening drug if it wasn't going to help their performance. For what other reason would they take it?

[Tyler]

Citing guys who wear phiten necklaces and power balance bracelets as an authority might not be the best method of supporting your argument.

 

[jshep]

Well, they're not going to take it unless they THINK it's going to increase their performance.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean it will.

 

And of course there's still stuff like HGH that if nothing else does help recovery from injuries, so there's good reason to take something like that even if you don't think it's going to help your performance.

 

I mean Babe Ruth injected sheep's testicles to get an edge. (I just love sharing that piece of information as often as I possibly can, cause ewwwwww).

 

Players have always and will always do all sorts of shit to get whatever competitive edge they think they can get.

Edited September 24, 2013 by jshep