2014 Rotation

[SoWhat]

I'm sure you said the exact same thing when he was a free agent at 37. Btw I meant to say no more than a 4 year deal

Completely wrong. A Multi-year contract for anybody of that age is not a smart move, no matter what type of season they had before. I wouldn't have done that 2 years ago, and I definetly wouldn't do it now

[Docwaukee]

I think Kuroda will either be a Yankee or be done.  That's the feeling I get. 

 

Any trade combo that nets us a club controlled starter with #2 potential.  Include Cron, Grichuk as potential guys to move in that group as well.  Don't move anyone else from the minors.  Vargas or equivalent for the other spot.  A few minor league deal as well. 

If we see Stange, Enright, or Buckner at any point next year, we might as well start planning for 2015. 

[Tank]

Tank is having lunch with Tanaka next week (of course).  Anxious to see what he reports.

There's a new BBQ tofu palace that just opened in Glendale. Hoping tanaka is hungry and takes a fancy to our nice weather.

[tdawg87]

I'd ask the O's about Wei-Yin Chen. He is signed through the 2014 season with a club option for 2015. The O's probably wouldn't be willing to trade him, however they could definitely use a second baseman, at least until Jonathan Schoop is ready. I'd offer them something like Kendrick and Bourjos, and maybe Cron as well.

[Docwaukee]

I'd ask the O's about Wei-Yin Chen. He is signed through the 2014 season with a club option for 2015. The O's probably wouldn't be willing to trade him, however they could definitely use a second baseman, at least until Jonathan Schoop is ready. I'd offer them something like Kendrick and Bourjos, and maybe Cron as well.

I agree that the O's are a tough fit in that their SP is pretty thin and they have Adam Jones in CF. 

 

I still think Tampa would be our best bet.  They could certainly use both Aybar and Trumbo. 

[Second Base]

Can't see the Angels dealing Aybar unless they have a suitable replacement in mind.  I can speak for sure there were talks of trading Aybar back at the deadline, but from what I understand that was due diligence that grew into blatant consideration because of what was being offered.  Obviously the deal never came to fruition but it does leave me encouraged to know that Dipoto has his eye on the future and is willing to make sacrifices to bring in the young SP talent the club so desperately needs.  

 

It looks like Dipoto has his eye on a few more RIchards type of starters. I'd be more willing to part ways with Kendrick or Trumbo for that young talent, as SS isn't exactly a talent rich position right now and we can count on Aybar for a .280ish BA, good defense and 20ish SB every year.  That's better than what all but a handful of teams have. 

[disarcina]

re-sign Vargas if you can, then you've got Weaver, WIlson, Vargas, Richards and need to pick up a number three through five guy (someone not named Blanton).

 

If the Halos want to retain Jerome Williams as a sixth starter, 4-A guy, long relief, etc. --- that's OK I guess -- but I think Jerome Williams' time with us is done.

 

starting pitching is going to be in high demand in both on the F/A market and on the trade market.......several of the pitchers listed in this thread will no doubt receive overly generous contracts.

 

For example, Lincecum, who turned down a huge deal offered by the Giants during the 2012 season but wanted to 'wait' to test the F/A market -- no he can do that but will not receive anywhere close to what the Giants previously offered him - however, he still may have several bidders for his services -- including the rotation starved Yankees -- and get a better contract than his 2013 performance suggest he should.......

 

Angels should probably (as this thread suggests on several posts) package guys like Burgous, Trumbo maybe Kendrick for a quality Number three type starter -- preferably a younger arm under club control for several more seasons -- or someone who the Halos can extend upon making the deal --  even a number three guy is going to be expensive both in terns of trading our players away and in contract dollars.....

 

Guys like Cowgill, Calhoun make Bourgos (who I really like but may be better suited for an NL team) and probably Trumbo, as well, expendable........as they say, gotta give up something to get something......we need a starter........unless anyone here thinks a combo of Williams/ Blanton/ AAA guys can fill the fifth spot --  yeah, thought so, we've seen enough of that.........

[Docwaukee]

Can't see the Angels dealing Aybar unless they have a suitable replacement in mind.  I can speak for sure there were talks of trading Aybar back at the deadline, but from what I understand that was due diligence that grew into blatant consideration because of what was being offered.  Obviously the deal never came to fruition but it does leave me encouraged to know that Dipoto has his eye on the future and is willing to make sacrifices to bring in the young SP talent the club so desperately needs.  

 

It looks like Dipoto has his eye on a few more RIchards type of starters. I'd be more willing to part ways with Kendrick or Trumbo for that young talent, as SS isn't exactly a talent rich position right now and we can count on Aybar for a .280ish BA, good defense and 20ish SB every year.  That's better than what all but a handful of teams have. 

 

I agree with all the things you have mentioned.  The real question becomes what is Aybar worth on the trade market.  If he's worth a club controlled potential #2 starter yet Trumbo is worth a club controlled #4 then you have to consider it.  The other question you have to ask is who is his replacement.  Right now it would be Romine. 

We give Bourjos a ton of credit for his defense to the point that some argue his offense is irrelevant.  Can Romine be similar?  Can he be a 2dWAR guy?  with a .230avg/.330obp and 20 steals?  is the drop off from aybar enough to keep the team from upgrading the rotation? 

 

I don't have an answer to this, but considering what the staff did this year, I think it's something you have to consider. 

[disarcina]

Romine is as good as it gets at D but he's not an everyday MLB MIF.......he's a defensive guy who's going to hit about .225 on a good day.

 

Romine needs to keep his speed (he's no longer the young kid trying to make the team, I think this September will be his third or fourth time as a Sept. call up) and base-running skills (which speed obviously helps but as we all have seen over the years, a speedy runner isn't always a fundamentally sound guy on the base paths) and his bunting skills........Romine is at the point where he's trying to earn enough MLB time to get a pension and that means sticking as a bench-depth MIF.........

 

Trumbo for a younger, club controlled #4 starter sounds about right.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Blanton

Harang

Chien-Ming Wang

Ricky Romero

Phil Humber

[Second Base]

Well doc, I think that's what the Angels had their eye on in any potential trade.  A Michael Wacha type of starter.  The sort of pitcher that when combined with Richards can help stabilize the middle of the rotation for the next 5 years at a relatively inexpensive price.  I would say Grant Green seems like a perfect candidate to take over at shortstop, but he just isn't where he needs to be defensively.  

 

I think in the Angels case, the fact that Green is showing he's not overwhelmed at the plate bodes well for them. Trading Callaspo for Green has allowed them to trade Kendrick for the necessary SP. 

[Quinlanforthewin]

Kuroda is going to be 39 years old next year.  That's something the Angels DON'T need to do.  They need to get younger,  not older.

 

Something they don't need to do, but definitely would do. 

[Docwaukee]

Well doc, I think that's what the Angels had their eye on in any potential trade.  A Michael Wacha type of starter.  The sort of pitcher that when combined with Richards can help stabilize the middle of the rotation for the next 5 years at a relatively inexpensive price.  I would say Grant Green seems like a perfect candidate to take over at shortstop, but he just isn't where he needs to be defensively.  

 

I think in the Angels case, the fact that Green is showing he's not overwhelmed at the plate bodes well for them. Trading Callaspo for Green has allowed them to trade Kendrick for the necessary SP. 

I say move the player that gets you the most bang for your buck.  By all accounts, Green is not a SS and frankly, he seems pretty wooden at 2b.  They have enough offense without Aybar.  Just give the job to Romine and let him be Brendan Ryan with better contact and obp with good speed. 

[ettin]

With the usual disclaimer that none of us are really privy to what is actually being offered and discussed during trade talks I offer the following:

 

Trade Kendrick to either the Dodgers or the Orioles for a young, cost controlled starting pitcher (Zach Lee, Kevin Gausman, or by some bizarre miracle Dylan Bundy).

 

Also trade Mark Trumbo to a team like the Pirates (for Jameson Taillon) or the Cleveland Indians (for Danny Salazar).

 

Then resign Jason Vargas for 3 years/$30 million. Resign Jerome Williams in long relief (or alternatively place him in the 5-spot in the rotation and have Blanton in long-relief).

 

This gives you the following rotation: Jered Weaver, C.J. Wilson, Garrett Richards, Jason Vargas, and Jerome Williams. At AA/AAA you would have, for instance, Zach Lee and Taillon as pitching depth (7 deep). With someone like Blanton or possibly others in AA/AAA you'd have upwards of 8 or 9 starting pitchers as depth in case of injury.

 

On the offensive side you replace Kendrick with either Grant Green or a platoon of Taylor Lindsey and Green which should make up for approximately 80% of Kendrick's production. You'll lose Trumbo's home run capability but it would allow you to run Kole Calhoun out as a replacement outfielder/first baseman about 3-4 times a week. Also you could add Conger into the DH role when he isn't catching to keep his bat sharper. Calhoun and Conger would provide some thump with the bats and both have a better eye than Trumbo does so part of the loss in Slugging would be made up with on-base percentage (more getting on base but less home run power).

 

This scenario would help balance out the team in terms of offense and defense. The rest would rely on Hamilton gaining some (but certainly not all) ground from his horrible outing this year and Pujols being healthier.

 

Finally the bullpen would need an upgrade. It is not unreasonable to get a young, power arm in a trade of Kendrick or Trumbo included in some type of package (even if it means we include more in the deal). Ideally we need to acquire two relievers who could compete for a late inning role in the bullpen. Because we are using trades to gain our starters it is not unreasonable that we could sign a reliever like Parra in addition to a trade acquisition. That would upgrade our bullpen significantly and some of our Minor League guys could be depth in case of injury.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[ettin]

I say move the player that gets you the most bang for your buck.  By all accounts, Green is not a SS and frankly, he seems pretty wooden at 2b.  They have enough offense without Aybar.  Just give the job to Romine and let him be Brendan Ryan with better contact and obp with good speed. 

 

The only way Aybar goes is if we get a really good offer in return. I think Dipoto would rather move him next off season if we find ourselves out of contention or in need of more rebuild. Romine is a pure defensive backup. If you have to run another player out there on a regular basis it would seem like Tommy Field might get that opportunity but who knows.

 

Kendrick seems more likely to go than Aybar, imo.

[SoWhat]

Trumbo's value is extremely low, he can't get us a top prospect like Gausman or Taillon. It's best to just hold onto him

[mtangelsfan]

I don't like the idea of trading and every day player (kendrick, aybar) for relief pitchers.  It seems like you are giving a lot of for somebody who isn't going to pitch that many innings.

[ettin]

Trumbo's value is extremely low, he can't get us a top prospect like Gausman or Taillon. It's best to just hold onto him

 

I have to disagree a bit. Power like Trumbo has is getting more and more rare in an increasingly non-PED's environment. 30 HR power doesn't grow on trees and because of that it commands a higher value in trade discussions. Additionally Trumbo has 3 more years left before he is a free agent. That has quite a bit of value.

 

It may be enough to convince a team for one of their top young starters in my opinion. If you had too, there is no reason you couldn't throw in another prospect to acquire the right SP target.

[Tyler]

Even at Trumbo's peak value, he couldn't net Taillon or Gausman.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Shane

[ettin]

I don't like the idea of trading and every day player (kendrick, aybar) for relief pitchers.  It seems like you are giving a lot of for somebody who isn't going to pitch that many innings.

 

Not sure if that was directed at me but I am not suggesting we do that. Kendrick, Trumbo, Aybar, or even Bourjos should only be traded for starting pitching period. If, for instance, you trade Kendrick he has a lot of value and could bring back a young starting pitcher plus 1-2 additional prospects, one of which could be a MLB-ready reliever or prospect that is near-ready.

[Docwaukee]

I don't like the idea of trading and every day player (kendrick, aybar) for relief pitchers.  It seems like you are giving a lot of for somebody who isn't going to pitch that many innings.

I think you were referring to Wacha no?  He's actually a starter or at least will be going forward.  They aren't giving him up. 

[mtangelsfan]

No I wasn't but ettin cleared up what he was saying.

[SoWhat]

I have to disagree a bit. Power like Trumbo has is getting more and more rare in an increasingly non-PED's environment. 30 HR power doesn't grow on trees and because of that it commands a higher value in trade discussions. Additionally Trumbo has 3 more years left before he is a free agent. That has quite a bit of value.

It may be enough to convince a team for one of their top young starters in my opinion. If you had too, there is no reason you couldn't throw in another prospect to acquire the right SP target.

If someone wants a OF bat with 30 HR potential, they can just sign Raul Ibanez for $2M instead of giving up a top prospect. His 1.9 WAR and .765 OPS won't net us those type of arms. IMO, you'd have to package him with someone else to get a young arm like Taillon or Gausman

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

I have to disagree a bit. Power like Trumbo has is getting more and more rare in an increasingly non-PED's environment. 30 HR power doesn't grow on trees and because of that it commands a higher value in trade discussions. Additionally Trumbo has 3 more years left before he is a free agent. That has quite a bit of value.

 

It may be enough to convince a team for one of their top young starters in my opinion. If you had too, there is no reason you couldn't throw in another prospect to acquire the right SP target.

30 HR seasons for a DH/1B aren't that meaningful when the player only has a .768, .805, and .765 OPS in his three 30 HR seasons.  

Edited August 27, 2013 by AngelsAndRamsFan

[Second Base]

I like the creativity and feel you're well aware of the the issues the Angels face and their strengths Ettin, but I don't think a rotation of Weav, Wilson, Richards, Vargas and Williams is going to cut it.  It didn't work in 2013 and probably wouldn't be much better off in 2014.  On top of which losing both Kendrick and Trumbo would really hurt the offense.  Having those pitchers you mentioned in AAA would bode well for the future of the organization, but I think that by making those moves, you'd essentially be writing off the the Angels in 2014.

 

My aim would be to field a much improved team for 2014, while acquiring the necessary talent to compete at a much higher level in 2015 and 2016. Essentially, I want to get the organization back on the right track. 

 

I think you're onto something with the idea of Green and Lindsey replacing 80% of Kendrick's value at 2B in 2014 and thus not losing much offense at all.  But losing Trumbo's 35ish HR could be more difficult to replace than previously assumed.  If we could say for sure that Pujols will be healthy and Hamilton would be better than he was this year, then absolutely, I'd be fine with trading Trumbo.  But I'm just not confident that's the case. 

 

I think the angels need to spend money in the short term to dig themselves out until they've grown the necessary longterm components.  

 

I'd deal Kendrick for Lee/Gausman and save 9 million, cut Blanton and save 500K, deal Hanson and save around 3 million, sign a good LHRP like Lopez or Perez for around 4 mil, sign a good closer type like Balfour for another 7 million.  This'd put the Angels around 10 million less than where they're at right now.  With that 10 million I'd sign Hughes for 7 million a year, Kuroda for a short contract worth 15 million a year.

 

This would put the Angels payroll right around 150 million, which is an acceptable level and would set them up for a rotation in a couple years that includes Weav, Wilson, Richards, Lee/Gausman and Sappington with guys like Hunter Green, Jonah Wesely, Arjenis Fernandez and Michael Clevinger all being in AA/AAA by then.