The thing I don't understand about Scioscia defenders

[Brandon]

Makes sense, the team sucks because they aren't motivated enough.

[Stradling]

Oh and the fact losing seasons are now defined as not making the playoffs.

[full circle]

The funny thing is that there are plenty of reports praising the Rangers for going for the extra base, pitching well, and playing defense. All of which were the trademarks of the winning Angels teams... the same brand of baseball fans were sick of.

Those days are long gone. But hey, they hit more HRs now.

People were tired of the low Obp, no power having hackers that filled our lineups during the years we won division titles but then stunk in the playoffs. No one was tired of good pitching and base running.

[austin724]

You can hate on Scioscia all you want but the real problem was Dipoto. Not one pitcher he acquired last offseason has panned out.  I never heard Scioscia ever say this season that this was a championship caliber club. Scioscia knew from the start it wasn't.

[tdawg87]

Oh and the fact losing seasons are now defined as not making the playoffs.

 

I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Blarg]

It was established that many pitchers play golf on their off days.  Including Angels pitchers.

 

 

 

I was referring to Josh Beckett taking a day off in the rotation claiming an arm problem then going and playing 18 holes of golf.

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120509&content_id=30821472&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

[Blarg]

And Reynolds is much cheaper than Hackilton.

 

He is referring to Trumbo.

[Blarg]

So you're saying the team wouldn't play better with a more motivating manager? Judging by your post I doubt you ever had a job.  Managers at my company make the difference between motivated and unmotivated employees which make a difference in company results.  That's why it's key to getting a good manager.

 

But apparently baseball is not a part of the real world according to you.

 

Just this last week Howie Kendrick went all out on a pop up to right field and blew out his knee on a play that is meaningless. They are out of the playoff hunt, the AAA guys are called up to play and yet Kendrick did his best to catch that ball and paid a stiff price for playing in a motivated, highly competitive way. Scioscia has been his only big league manager.

[Marsaka]

Makes sense, the team sucks because they aren't motivated enough.

 

So what is the issue then?  A lack of talent? LOL

[Stradling]

A lack of performance.

[tdawg87]

So what is the issue then?  A lack of talent? LOL

 

Ye.....yes?

[Brandon]

I nominate Marsaka to be the next manager.

His motivation tactics would get guys like Hamilton and Blanton into shape.

[Stradling]

I nominate Toby. I know who would be our center fielder and number three hitter.

[mp170.6]

What puzzles me about Scioscia supporters is why he's perceived as so great to begin with.  There are many things about Scioscia's performance over the years that make him average, below average, or just plain awful as a manager.  These things are consistently ignored by those who admire him for some reason.  

 

-- Some are still clinging to the 2002 season.  We haven't seen anything like it since. 

 

-- Some point to the five AL West titles ignoring the fact that division competition was almost non-existent during those years.  Except for 2002 and maybe a couple other seasons, Scioscia's teams collapse whenever two other AL West teams are competitive.  So if Texas and Oakland are playing well -- as they have in recent years -- you can pretty much write the Angels off every time.

 

-- Some point to his win/loss record.  Again, in a division with little competition, it should be easy to rack up wins by pummeling AL West non-contenders. That's exactly what Texas and Oakland have done to the Angels and Astros this year. 

 

-- Some point to his being "one of the best managers in the game".  When Rex and Steve were still here, they repeated that mantra numerous times on every broadcast.  Others have picked up on it and repeat it just the same.  That repetition has become blind persuasion for so many fans. 

 

-- Some point to his being "a player's manager".  He doesn't hold them accountable, so of course his players love him.  Compare this to your own life...I'll bet some of your favorite bosses and teachers were laid back, friendly, never got angry, had low expectations, and never held you or anybody else accountable when performance was subpar. 

 

-- Some fans, unfairly, in my opinion, give credit to Scioscia that is due to Moreno instead.  Do you believe the Angels would have done so well 2004-2009 without Moreno opening his wallet for guys like Vlad Guerrero, Kelvim Escobar, or Torii Hunter?  I sure don't. 

 

-- The Angels are 10-19 in postseason games since 2002.  That's a .344 winning percentage. 

 

-- His teams have been marred with inconsistency.  Defense is usually good but every few years it is inexplicably bad, really bad.  We are tied with Milwaukee right now for the MOST fielding errors in all of MLB.  Just last year the Angels had the 10th FEWEST fielding errors with nearly the same group of players.  Offense (runs scored) is all over the place, from finishing in the bottom third, to average, to being in the top five.  This kind of disparity from season to season is rare. 

 

-- His teams are doomed if they begin the season poorly.  The "one game at a time" crap is not helpful when the Angels' fate is sealed by the end of May. 

 

-- His bullpen management began to unravel when the glue that held the bullpen together -- Scot Shields -- could no longer pitch.  I don't think he knows how to manage a pen stocked with average to below average relievers.  Look at the way he's used Frieri the past couple weeks.  He sets him up to fail knowing all along that his confidence is fragile.  Tuesday night he brings Frieri in with runners on base and does nothing while he gives up 4 consecutive singles and 3 runs score.  How is that helpful to a struggling young pitcher? 

 

-- His closed door meetings have been useless in recent years.  They play just as poorly afterwards.   

 

-- He's opposed to coaching changes and protects his pals (i.e. Mickey Hatcher) like brothers.  The fit he threw when Dipoto fired Hatcher should tell you everything you need to know about Mike's list of priorities.  Loyalty to a select group of friends outweighs his desire to win. 

 

 

Look, we've had a lot of good times under Scioscia and he rightly deserves at least partial credit.  I'm not taking that away from him.  What I'm saying is if you consider Mike a great manager on the basis of what his teams accomplished in 2002 and 2004-2009, you can't look the other way and disregard how badly his teams have played 2010-2013. 

[mp170.6]

Mike Scioscia does some dumb shit. His lineups can often be head-scratchers. His bullpen decision are often questionable at best, and downright insane at worst. That said, there is absolutely nothing that he can do to make Josh Hamilton start hitting again. To make Tommy Hanson a quality starter. To make Frieri a good closer. To make the defense do basic fundamental things that are taught in little league. Mike Scioscia is not a psychologist. It's not his job to turn these guys into baseball robots. I often see the argument that the team isn't motivated and they don't have their heads in the game and that this falls on Mike. I honestly don't see what he can do to "motivate" them other than giving pep talks and getting on their cases for doing something stupid. Either way it's ultimately up to the player to decide how "motivated" he is. They aren't soldiers. They aren't dogs to be house broken. They are normal adults playing a game for a living. Do you blame your supervisor at work for "lack of motivation" when you completely **** up? Since the world isn't Office Space, my guess is no.

 

People are motivated in strange ways.  I'm not a psychologist, so don't ask me why, but some players seem to excel playing pissed off.  A good brawl, being called out by their manager, being called out by the media, getting booed, etc, sometimes lights a fire under guys to improve their game. 

 

If Mike's personality is more or less the same behind closed doors, his pep talks and words of encouragement would be so boring and robotic that I would fall asleep standing up.  When you examine how the players respond to those closed door meetings, it becomes pretty obvious that whatever Mike says is received and discarded as background noise.  They play just as poorly after these meetings.

[Guest]

Really?  I've never heard a manager called out by former players as much as Mike Scioscia has been.  In fact I've never heard a manager called out by any player except Mike Scioscia and that says it all.

That's simply false. You must be new to watching baseball.

[Bruce Nye]

Damn, I'm sorry I missed this compelling thread.

[Link]

Trout's kinda getting stuck up

 

I never got that impression, I don't know why so many people do

 

I remember being at a dodgers/angels game earlier this season and there was a kid with terminal cancer and the only Angel to walk up and talk to the guy was Trout.

 

Ah, found an article about it.  Apparently the guy died

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130808&content_id=56345344&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

[RePLAY]

its not Scoiscia's fault guys. He's not out there playing. He's just puts together the line up. Thats all that managers do remember.  

[Jay]

2.  What in Dipoto's or Arte's history makes you believe they would pick the right manager next time.

 

I'm sure there are some good candidates from Arizona and Colorado.

[tdawg87]

Dante Bichette for manager.

[Vladfan]

its not Scoiscia's fault guys. He's not out there playing. He's just puts together the line up. Thats all that managers do remember.  

 

Finally.......someone understands Scioscia's role.

[nate]

So if Scioscia has nothing to do with what the team does now then he obviously had nothing to do with the play the last decade, right?  So why should we hold onto him?

[eaterfan]

So if Scioscia has nothing to do with what the team does now then he obviously had nothing to do with the play the last decade, right?  So why should we hold onto him?

 

Cause it costs less to not pay two managers.

[Stradling]

He will be promoted this off season.