Tim Anderson rumor

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Anderson also would give you an option if Neto has more injury issues or hits a Sophomore slump....

This is definitely something we need to keep in mind this winter. Especially with how often Neto gets HBP and in general plays all out. We had to rely on Velazquez so much last year, and there is not really any suitable SS options in-house that I'd trust on a daily basis. Plenty of short-terms, but landing some depth this winter that can cover SS for a month if needed should be key. 

I like Kyle Farmer as a quiet, solid option that offers good defense and average offense across most of the infield. Seems a little safer than Anderson. 

[Duren, Duren]

Velazquez doesn't fit on the type of team the Angels will be in 2024. A defensive specialist with literally no offensive talent. Unless you consider bunting on every at bat. He's a luxury for a good team that wants a late  inning defensive sub. 

I'd go after Anderson one a one year deal or maybe a bit longer with a team option. If the price is reasonable. He'll be motivated to jump start his career, and Washington will be a good influence. And would add versatility to the infield. 

Rengifo and Drury haven't proven to be everyday starters, but do well enough in limited time and as depth players. And I expect that there will be time enough at third base when Rendon starts missing games. 

And with the DH spot open we still don't know how it will be filled. Drury and Rengifo could be solid enough platooning there with whoever else is added. I doubt the team signs a high end everyday starter for that role. 

 

[Erstad Grit]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think Anderson gets a better contract than most here think he will get. It’ll be at least one year plus a player option, at around $12-15 million a season. 

I think 12 to 15 is reasonable.

Bellinger is a good high end comp since his peak was higher than Anderson. 

[ScottM]

depth is good but Rengifo always seems to get the short end of the stick. He should get 500 ABs one year to see what he can do..

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I like Kyle Farmer as a quiet, solid option that offers good defense and average offense across most of the infield. Seems a little safer than Anderson. 

Thought he would have been a good option last year, although Drury was a really good get.....hard to judge Urshela but he was pretty solid too before the injury, albeit with no power numbers....I would give Perry a good mark for at least trying to assemble INF depth last offseason....

[AngelStew43]

Wow.  You would pay a 30-year old SS who had 1 HR in 2023 12-15 million?  And, you would give away Drury, 26, and Rengifo, 16 HR?  

If you think we had trouble scoring runs this year, and that move gets made, 2024 will revert back to the 70's. 

[Jason]

3 hours ago, DMVol said:

I get that but fitting both Drury and Rengifo in to the lineup, with Anderson, could be a squeeze....and I know it isn't going to happen but if Rendon is reasonably healthy, he's going to play....

Rendon and Trout are going to be their primary DH next season. It’s the only way to help keep these dudes off of the IL. 

[DMVol]

Just now, Jason said:

Rendon and Trout are going to be their primary DH next season. It’s the only way to help keep these dudes off of the IL. 

Both got hurt at the plate this year....Trout swinging the bat and Rendon on a foul ball to the leg.....

[Jason]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

Both got hurt at the plate this year....Trout swinging the bat and Rendon on a foul ball to the leg.....

I understand that which just goes to show they can’t handle much physically so there’s no point in having them play the field. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Jason

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

I'm mixed. A year ago this guy was the aim of everybody in the trade market and he simply fell apart.

Was he injured? Did he had a personal tragedy? If there is a reason he could be a great rebound candidate at 2B.

Even in his good days, drastically relied on BA for OPS.    Treats BBs like the plague.  SLG% fell off the face of the earth the past 2 seasons.

HARD pass!

Nowadays, Farmer >>> Anderson.

Let the starting INF be Schanuel, Drury, Neto, and Rengifo, move Rendon to DH (no more bad throws), and sign a decent enough experienced utility INF.

Focus the new money on pitching.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Pancake Bear]

19 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Even in his good days, drastically relied on BA for OPS.    Treats BBs like the plague.  SLG% fell off the face of the earth the past 2 seasons.

HARD pass!

Nowadays, Farmer >>> Anderson.

Let the starting INF be Schanuel, Drury, Neto, and Rengifo, move Rendon to DH (no more bad throws), and sign a decent enough experienced utility INF.

Focus the new money on pitching.

That's a super shallow infield that relies on no one regressing or getting injured. Absolutely need another player who is an everyday starter.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, AngelStew43 said:

Wow.  You would pay a 30-year old SS who had 1 HR in 2023 12-15 million?  And, you would give away Drury, 26, and Rengifo, 16 HR?  

If you think we had trouble scoring runs this year, and that move gets made, 2024 will revert back to the 70's. 

I don't necessarily think signing Anderson, or Candelario even, means one of Drury or Rengifo are automatically gone. Anderson can take 2B, Drury goes to 1B, Schanuel likely goes to AAA (which would not be unmerited, IMO), and Rengifo becomes the supersub. Candelario/Anderson essentially replace Urshela. It opens up the possibility of trading one, but they don't have to.

That said, there's not a whole lot about Anderson that's really exciting me at this point...would rather get Candelario and have him at 3B/1B, Drury at 2B, Neto at SS, and Rengifo picking up ABs around the diamond.

[Angel Oracle]

I still want to see Rengifo with Washington’s tutelage.

[totdprods]

28 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I still want to see Rengifo with Washington’s tutelage.

Thinking bigger picture...it makes sense to move Drury to 1B full-time this season, his last under contract, and have Rengifo establish himself at 2B full-time in hopes he becomes our long-term solution there for the next half-decade.

Schanuel, as impressive as he was, really could benefit from some additional seasoning and would likely have to spend some time on the bench in the bigs given the number of infielders hanging around. It'll be better for him to get regular reps in AAA and look to step in full time 2025, once Drury is out. To this end, a 3B like Candelario makes quite a bit of sense. I'm not as hopeless as most when it comes to Rendon but there's no way I could possibly assume he'll give the Angels anywhere close to 120 games even at 3B anymore.

My heart wants Ohtani re-signed so badly, but truth is it really just makes no sense. He can't pitch next year, and we need pitching. We have two expensive, critical players who practically need DH the next few years in Rendon and Trout, and that's Ohtani's only real utility in '24 and likeliest position still going forward. We can't have $100m+ annually tied up for essentially three DH-heavy guys going forward (Trout isn't there yet, but over the duration of Ohtani's theoretical deal, he almost has to be at some point) and we can't spend that much money on a pitcher who can't pitch for another year.

Sign Candelario for 3B, Neto at SS, Rengifo at 2B, Drury at 1B. Rendon to DH. Schanuel can replace Drury full-time next year, with Candelario as 1B insurance.

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I don't necessarily think signing Anderson, or Candelario even, means one of Drury or Rengifo are automatically gone. Anderson can take 2B, Drury goes to 1B, Schanuel likely goes to AAA (which would not be unmerited, IMO), and Rengifo becomes the supersub. Candelario/Anderson essentially replace Urshela. It opens up the possibility of trading one, but they don't have to.

That said, there's not a whole lot about Anderson that's really exciting me at this point...would rather get Candelario and have him at 3B/1B, Drury at 2B, Neto at SS, and Rengifo picking up ABs around the diamond.

Agree that bringing an infielder doesn't mean a trade is coming. People said the same thing last season when we brought in Urshela and Drury. It's called depth. People get injured. We have two rookies who could regress

Where I disagree is that Schanuel should be sent down when we grab another infielder (which it's pretty obvious Perry intends to do). He was as good at the plate as any of our infielders. Again, he could regress, and we should be prepared for that possibility, but nothing in his numbers screams regression is likely, unlike (e.g.) Moniak. 

[Slegnaac]

David Fletcher is still with the organization?

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

David Fletcher is still with the organization?

Yes

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

It's called depth. People get injured. We have two rookies who could regress...

...where I disagree is that Schanuel should be sent down when we grab another infielder.

I think you sort of answered that part in your post...Schanuel absolutely played well enough that he doesn't need to be sent down, and he certainly has a spot in this lineup, but he also was promoted last year somewhat out of necessity. 

The plate discipline is obviously there. I don't think he'd be hurt playing in AAA at all, and I wouldn't expect it to be long-term. Would not hurt for him to get a few reps at LF/RF either given how fragile our current depth is there, plus with how young he is, knowing more than one position at this point in his career, even for late-game subs, would be beneficial for him. I'm not up to speed on club control specifics off the top of my head, but him spending the first 6 weeks in AAA might help the team there as well. I'm not sure we can afford having Schanuel platoon to start his career and the season...it is either taking away a lot of at-bats from Drury (provided the other IF spots are full), or it's leading to him sitting a lot of the time, which, advanced as he is, probably isn't ideal, especially considering how little pro time he has. He's not a finished product. 

And again, I fully expect an infielder (Rendon) to go down with injury (Rendon) at some point (probably Rendon), clearing the way for him to get full-time 1B reps if Drury moves over (or is out himself). And yes, if we sign another infielder we could deal Rengifo or Drury, but I'm not sure Schanuel is far enough into his career that we should be moving productive players to guarantee him playing time - not yet. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by totdprods

[totdprods]

Another player I'd be keeping an eye on is Jorge Polanco. Allegedly on the trade block, and would sort of mirror the Urshela deal last year from Minnesota, so they've come together once already for a similar trade. Solid contact rates, good BB:K ratio, primarily 2B last year but can pick up time at 3B and SS in a pinch, switch-hitter. ~$10m in '24, option for '25. 

Presumably when the Halos dealt Hidalgo for Urshela last year, the clubs discussed a couple other names, so they could just revisit that this year. Gleyber Torres is someone I'd be eyeing too.

Edited November 13, 2023 by totdprods

[AngelsWin.com]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Ryan Falla, AngelsWin.com Contributor

The Angels are currently hard up for quality talent in many spots across the roster heading into 2024, yet one place that needs little reinforcement is their current infield situation. With a talent stream featuring the likes of Nolan Schanuel, Brandon Drury, Zach Neto, Anthony Rendon, and Luis Rengifo there is clearly little room for addition in this tightly packed, talented infield. Yet recent offseason stove burnings have the Angels smouldering with interest in former White Sox infielder Tim Anderson, an athlete once known for his league best contact abilities who now stands at the crossroads as the light begins to dim on his career. His beleaguered bat, coupled with known character issues, and a league worst glove at shortstop, make a Tim Anderson partnership seem rather questionable for the Halos.

However, when you break down the minutiae of the Angels present paths going forward there is little to indicate the organization has many, if any options at all, in improving current roster conditions. Digging deeper into the potential benefits and consequences of a Tim Anderson signing points towards the Angels potentially receiving the greatest asset in which they currently have little of, that asset being versatility in roster construction opportunities as they plunge headfirst into the long winter off-season.

First we must evaluate the strength of an Anderson signing on it’s own accord. The former All Star once swung a league best bat back in 2019 as he produced an MLB best batting average of .335 with flashes of power promise that saw the young star collect 32 doubles with 81 runs scored, though his 18 HR’s would be an underachievement as he hit 20 the year before while swinging just .240. Tim Anderson, at his best, showcased a world of promise, though even then the cracks were already present in the league leading 26 year old. Though he managed a .335 average his OBP sat at .357, which to be fair is a nice OBP for most athletes, though when you’re swinging .335 to begin with it becomes clear there is something there that is not quite sustainable. Aside from his contact prowess Tim Anderson was not getting on base in any significant manner. You don’t have to look far to make sense of this aberration, through 518 PAs in 2019 Anderson managed just 15 walks, a mark so overwhelming egregious it is almost commendable in its absurdity. This of course was paired with 109 strikeouts on the year, setting the tone for unsustainability going forward. Though Anderson would maintain his productivity the next few seasons (hitting over .300 from 2020-2022) this all came crashing down come in 2023. Last year saw Anderson struggle immensely as he lost every conceivable offensive tool in his belt; his slash of .245/.286/.296 paints the entire picture clearly enough without need for advanced peripherals or linguistic athletics. Though he would state injury as a factor in his lost season (a torn hand ligament limited his 2022 to 79 games while an MCL injury stole time in 2023) this was only the tip of the iceberg in burgeoning concerns.

"I had an MCL injury[...] that kind of messed with me hitting. I kind of was not really hitting up against anything on the front side. I'm really not trying to make that excuse. This year has been a lot of searching. The body is working a lot differently, especially coming off injury. I could never grab hold to what I was searching for." -Tim Anderson (quote by Scott Merkin @ MLB.com)   

There are a few factors regarding the massive drop off in 2023, injury being a large one, yet even outside of his IL woes Anderson's BB/K rate alongside certain batted ball factors had his production primed for a leveling off. Aside from having the 4th worst walk rate in the Majors at 3.7% (through 2019-2022) Tim Anderson also ranked in the bottom of the league with the 10th worst GB% as 53% of his batted balls registered as ground balls. It’s hard to say Tim Anderson benefitted from luck through an entire four year span, though a hitter who profiles as a high groundball, low walk, high strikeout type would not be due for as much offensive success as Anderson saw were it not due to outlying factors such as luck.

Defensively Tim Anderson was one of the worst shortstops across the Majors through this span; overall he ranked 4th in errors among qualified shortstops (54 errors), was bottom 4 in assists (906), bottom 10 in putouts (498), while ultimately registering the 6th worst Defensive Runs Saved total of -8 DRS. Speaking on peripherals there is little to love about Anderson; can’t walk, strikes out far too often, doesn’t lift the ball, has no range, no arm, and generally no defensive touch. So what exactly is there to gain from a Tim Anderson signing for the Angels?

The true quality of such a move comes through opening up the Angels ability to sell either Brandon Drury or Luis Rengifo on the trade market without facing massive consequence (i.e fielding less than replacement level Minor Leaguers all year). Brandon Drury was one of the MLBs best offensive second baseman as noted by his 7th best wRC+ of 114 thanks to a consistent, hard hitting approach at the plate. Drury ranked as the MLBs best 2nd baseman when it came to HR/FB ratio as 19.1% of his flyballs went yard in 2023, a value that would be rather easy to play up on trade market. Overall Drury's .262/.306/.497 slash with 26 HRs and 83 RBIs would mesh well on any contender light on consistent and quality 2B AB's (Los Angeles Dodgers?). On the other hand you have Luis Rengifo, who may not command as much up front value as Drury, though his years of team control (under team control through 2026) alongside his super-super-utility ability to play six positions across the outfield and infield combined would mesh well on a contending team looking for quality support behind their starters. Rengifo’s offensive ability carries a surprising ceiling as the last three months of the 2023 season saw him bat well over .300 each month as he finished the year slashing .262/.339/.444 with 16 HRs and 51 RBIs alongside 41 BBs to 82 Ks. Of course there is an inconsistency to consider with his bat as his first three months saw him hit .200, .197, .209 respectively, though with 12 of his 16 HRs coming in the final three months there is plenty of room to negotiate his offensive value in trade talks. The real question to consider is not who would get the most value back, but which trade would put the Angels in the least vulnerable position in 2024?

Tim Anderson cannot play defense whatsoever and should not be expected too, making it difficult to see the team sending off a glove who can play all across the infield and outfield in favor of fielding two incumbent second baseman. Zach Neto covers shortstop with exceptional ability, meaning Anderson would only see SS AB's on Neto’s days off or in emergency situations. Realistically you cannot account for many outings at shortstop for Anderson, and if Rengifo is traded over Drury then you really are selling Anderson short because he will get almost zero time at 2B with Drury and Neto healthy. Drury can work some days at 1B when Schanuel needs time off, though it would not be nearly enough time to open the AB's needed at 2B to justify Tim Anderson. This leaves Anderson playing as utility man behind Drury and Neto, yet with defense so egregiously awful and a bat no better than Rengifo's there is less than no benefit to utilizing Anderson as a utility option. Especially considering Anderson would likely make more money than Rengifo, who made 2 million through 2023 and is currently set for arbitration this offseason. At what point can you truly justify signing Anderson as a utility option? The only reasonable solution would be to trade Drury and employ Anderson as an everyday 2B, leaving Rengifo to do what he does best and cover whatever is most in need on any given day, which is an incredibly valuable asset that Angel fans should not discount. There is also argument that Anderson could be signed without a trade as a stash in case of injury, but this in itself would require either an option on Neto or Schanuel or a DFA of Rendon or Rengifo, and with Tim Andersons inability to play third there is little logic in DFA'ing Rendon or Rengifo. There is no logical path towards an Anderson signing without a following trade.

There is some chance he could bounce back and achieve a glimmer of his former star under Ron Washington, though that is not to be heavily considered when you evaluate the true value of an Anderson signing. Acquiring the former favorite son of the White Sox would signal a new era in Anaheim, not one where the team excels under the power of his revived productivity, but one where the organization takes a realistic stance on their internal ability and values going forward and subsequently engage in the unglamourous decision making process that ensures long term success. Is this the longwinded way of saying a Tim Anderson signing signals a rebuild in Anaheim? Somewhat. A Tim Anderson acquisition gives the Angels options where they had little before, and for this beleaguered organization any step forward, no matter how insignificant, brings fans closer to seeing the favorable days shine down on Anaheim once more.

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[drpiranha]

I'd rather have Whit Merrifield.

[Angelsjunky]

This would be such an Angelish move, so I could see it happening.

Isn't Anderson the guy that a couple years ago said he was as good as anyone?

[Erstad Grit]

I changed my mind.

I actually looked up his numbers. He wasn't very good in 2022 either. 

Put me in the pass category unless it's a 1/5 type of deal. 

[Hubs]

Anderson needs a change of scenery, but I don't think its a good fit for him here.

That was a huge drop off, so he shouldn't get anything more than like Simmons got when he left here. And if it's $10M its $5M too high

 

[totdprods]

38 minutes ago, drpiranha said:

I'd rather have Whit Merrifield.

Same. He fits the needs a lot better, with the exception of being able to really back-up SS adequately. But I feel every other box is checked...some outfield, some infield, some speed/base-stealing, good contact, little bit of pop. 

If Anderson is brought in purely as a supplemental/back-up piece, I'm alright with it...but if he's supplanting Drury or Rengifo from 2B or regular playing time I'm not that interested. I like that he can back-up SS and has some upside, but that's about. Really he's a more expensive and less reliable Urshela the way his last two seasons have gone, and we sort of have that under contract already in Fletcher.