Good Young Talent

[Stradling]

I fully understand that our farm ranking is what it is, but we have seen a nice little collection of talent hit the team the last few years.  So far it hasn’t amounted to more wins, but it does speak well for our future.  I know it is easier to shit all over the team in times like these, but there is enough of that all of the board and twitter.  

Position Players:

I really like our trio of guys that came up late last year and this year in Neto, O’Hoppe and Schanuel.  They don’t have to be All Stars to bring incredible value to the team.  They have to be above league average and create less question marks and less black holes in a line up.  Neto and O’Hoppe both seem to be above league average defensively, which we all know will help.  Schanuel, I have no idea how he is defensively, time will tell.  Looking at him he doesn’t look super athletic, but if he has good hands then he will be fine over at 1st base.  Mix that in with whatever Moniak brings to the table and we have some good young cost controlled players that truly help fill out a roster.  

Pitchers:

Canning, Sandoval, Detmers and Silseth are all 27 or younger and have shown the ability to get major league hitters out.  I don’t know how to unlock what Sandoval is capable of, but it feels like he is the one that might be most affected by overthinking and extra data.  Last year he had a sub 3 ERA so the talent is there.  Detmers has great stuff, finished last year better than league average.  He will be a solid left handed pitcher for a long time.  Silseth is 23 and has good stuff on the mound.  He struggles after about 75 pitches with keeping up his velocity.  I have no idea if that is something that can improve over time with better conditioning.  At the very minimum I see him as a high leverage reliever.  Canning is still only 27 years old and could be a perfectly fine 3-5 pitcher.  Again all of these guys are club controlled and very valuable parts of a team looking to compete.  

Then you have the young relievers.  Joyce, Soriano and Bachman all look to have closer stuff.  If you can have guys like that, where you don’t have to throw closer money at closers in free agency, you have a leg up on a lot of other teams.  If they continue to develop and you can shorten the game, like the Reds once had with Charlton, Dibble and Myers, you will win a ton of games.  

 

Bottom line is this team isn’t as far away from competing as most think.  A lot of the pieces are already in place.  

[Swordsman78]

33 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I fully understand that our farm ranking is what it is, but we have seen a nice little collection of talent hit the team the last few years.  So far it hasn’t amounted to more wins, but it does speak well for our future.  I know it is easier to shit all over the team in times like these, but there is enough of that all of the board and twitter.  

Position Players:

I really like our trio of guys that came up late last year and this year in Neto, O’Hoppe and Schanuel.  They don’t have to be All Stars to bring incredible value to the team.  They have to be above league average and create less question marks and less black holes in a line up.  Neto and O’Hoppe both seem to be above league average defensively, which we all know will help.  Schanuel, I have no idea how he is defensively, time will tell.  Looking at him he doesn’t look super athletic, but if he has good hands then he will be fine over at 1st base.  Mix that in with whatever Moniak brings to the table and we have some good young cost controlled players that truly help fill out a roster.  

Pitchers:

Canning, Sandoval, Detmers and Silseth are all 27 or younger and have shown the ability to get major league hitters out.  I don’t know how to unlock what Sandoval is capable of, but it feels like he is the one that might be most affected by overthinking and extra data.  Last year he had a sub 3 ERA so the talent is there.  Detmers has great stuff, finished last year better than league average.  He will be a solid left handed pitcher for a long time.  Silseth is 23 and has good stuff on the mound.  He struggles after about 75 pitches with keeping up his velocity.  I have no idea if that is something that can improve over time with better conditioning.  At the very minimum I see him as a high leverage reliever.  Canning is still only 27 years old and could be a perfectly fine 3-5 pitcher.  Again all of these guys are club controlled and very valuable parts of a team looking to compete.  

Then you have the young relievers.  Joyce, Soriano and Bachman all look to have closer stuff.  If you can have guys like that, where you don’t have to throw closer money at closers in free agency, you have a leg up on a lot of other teams.  If they continue to develop and you can shorten the game, like the Reds once had with Charlton, Dibble and Myers, you will win a ton of games.  

 

Bottom line is this team isn’t as far away from competing as most think.  A lot of the pieces are already in place.  

Another excellent and well thought out take.  

IMO The '23 version of the Angels is better than their results show so far.   The addition of the 3 impact position rookies inspires optimism for '24.   The key is going to be keeping the starting 9 on the field and off the IL.

I'd like to see Perry grab a #1 starter, and a Closer who can throw 100mph strikes.   Arte needs to sign Ohtani (which is very doable because Ohtani wants to stay).

If these things happen, the Halos will be a threat to win the West in '24 and the forseeable future.

 

[BTH]

I think all the players you mentioned have the talent, but the organization needs to get the best out of them.

I’m hoping they make appropriate changes (whether it’s in the dugout or front office) in the offseason to get everyone on track in the rotation.

The Bachman and Joyce injuries concern me. I’m not sure they can be counted on.

Schanuel’s barely played, so I’m trying to be cautious there.

Moniak is teetering on the edge. He needs to make more contact and, ideally, clean up some of his swing decisions.

[Jason]

They’ve produced some better talent here lately than they have in recent memory. Unfortunately, it’s a crapshoot with prospects but hopefully recent drafts show that the trend is headed in the right direction. 

[Swordsman78]

41 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I think all the players you mentioned have the talent, but the organization needs to get the best out of them.

I’m hoping they make appropriate changes (whether it’s in the dugout or front office) in the offseason to get everyone on track in the rotation.

The Bachman and Joyce injuries concern me. I’m not sure they can be counted on.

Schanuel’s barely played, so I’m trying to be cautious there.

Moniak is teetering on the edge. He needs to make more contact and, ideally, clean up some of his swing decisions.

Why do you always want heads to roll?   Constant changes in leadership is never the right thing to do.    Make a decision and stick with it for a few years.

There were alot of odd things that happened to derail this season in addition to what you cited above. (i.e. injury list,  Trout and Rendon both out for 60+ days again, starting pitcher regression, huge blown leads, Estevez inexplicably not being able to throw strikes all of a sudden etc. etc. etc.

However there were plenty of bright spots.   Come from behind wins, addition of Ohoppe, Neto, Ohtani, Taylor Ward  etc.

Someone does not always need to be "held accountable" and take a fall.

Try no to think like a simpleton. 

[UndertheHalo]

They’ve got some guys that make it such that with or without Ohtani they can’t really do a rebuild.  I think hopes are high for all these guys that you mentioned but we’ll see how it goes.  

Edited August 19, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

Also, I’m sorry about this.  
 

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

They’ve got some guys that make it such that with it without Ohtani they can’t really do a rebuild.  I think hopes are high for all these guys that you mentioned but we’ll see how it goes.  

Of course they can do a rebuild. It’s just a rebuild that includes Trout and Rendon on the roster. 

[AngelFanInTheATL]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I fully understand that our farm ranking is what it is, but we have seen a nice little collection of talent hit the team the last few years.  So far it hasn’t amounted to more wins, but it does speak well for our future.  I know it is easier to shit all over the team in times like these, but there is enough of that all of the board and twitter.  

Position Players:

I really like our trio of guys that came up late last year and this year in Neto, O’Hoppe and Schanuel.  They don’t have to be All Stars to bring incredible value to the team.  They have to be above league average and create less question marks and less black holes in a line up.  Neto and O’Hoppe both seem to be above league average defensively, which we all know will help.  Schanuel, I have no idea how he is defensively, time will tell.  Looking at him he doesn’t look super athletic, but if he has good hands then he will be fine over at 1st base.  Mix that in with whatever Moniak brings to the table and we have some good young cost controlled players that truly help fill out a roster.  

Pitchers:

Canning, Sandoval, Detmers and Silseth are all 27 or younger and have shown the ability to get major league hitters out.  I don’t know how to unlock what Sandoval is capable of, but it feels like he is the one that might be most affected by overthinking and extra data.  Last year he had a sub 3 ERA so the talent is there.  Detmers has great stuff, finished last year better than league average.  He will be a solid left handed pitcher for a long time.  Silseth is 23 and has good stuff on the mound.  He struggles after about 75 pitches with keeping up his velocity.  I have no idea if that is something that can improve over time with better conditioning.  At the very minimum I see him as a high leverage reliever.  Canning is still only 27 years old and could be a perfectly fine 3-5 pitcher.  Again all of these guys are club controlled and very valuable parts of a team looking to compete.  

Then you have the young relievers.  Joyce, Soriano and Bachman all look to have closer stuff.  If you can have guys like that, where you don’t have to throw closer money at closers in free agency, you have a leg up on a lot of other teams.  If they continue to develop and you can shorten the game, like the Reds once had with Charlton, Dibble and Myers, you will win a ton of games.  

 

Bottom line is this team isn’t as far away from competing as most think.  A lot of the pieces are already in place.  

With all due respect, this sentence has been written here every year since 2014.

[Stradling]

Just now, AngelFanInTheATL said:

With all due respect, this sentence has been written here every year since 2014.

Except the actual talent wasn’t there from 2014-2021. So no, not really. Show me the 2014 version of Neto or O’Hoppe or Schanuel. Fletcher or Walsh weren’t close to Neto or Schanuel. Who were the back end relief arms in those years that looked like Bachman, Soriano or Joyce?  Morin? Bedrosian?  If you want to compare Sandoval Detmers to Skaggs or Heaney I think that’s fair. But then who is Silseth or Canning?  Tropeano?

[BTH]

44 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Why do you always want heads to roll?  

Because it’s clear the current “heads” aren’t working.

Not everyone in the org is on the same page, which is a huge problem.

The only way to fix that is to make staff changes in the coaching staff and/or front office.

Obviously, you can’t get people to changes their minds (see: Swordsman constantly defending Nevin)

[TroutField]

55 minutes ago, AngelFanInTheATL said:

With all due respect, this sentence has been written here every year since 2009. 

Yes 

[Stradling]

Just now, TroutField said:

Yes 

Nope. 

[TroutField]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Nope. 

I mean 1 playoff appearance in 14 years speaks for itself. 
 

that’s a 7% success rate. 

[Swordsman78]

23 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Because it’s clear the current “heads” aren’t working.

Not everyone in the org is on the same page, which is a huge problem.

The only way to fix that is to make staff changes in the coaching staff and/or front office.

Obviously, you can’t get people to changes their minds (see: Swordsman constantly defending Nevin)

Wow.   Batting 100%
 

4 statements.  All untrue.

You are Fake news.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, TroutField said:

I mean 1 playoff appearance in 14 years speaks for itself. 
 

that’s a 7% success rate. 

But it lends nothing to the validity of whether or not what I wrote could have been written since 2009 or 2014.  

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I fully understand that our farm ranking is what it is, but we have seen a nice little collection of talent hit the team the last few years.  So far it hasn’t amounted to more wins, but it does speak well for our future.  I know it is easier to shit all over the team in times like these, but there is enough of that all of the board and twitter.  

Position Players:

I really like our trio of guys that came up late last year and this year in Neto, O’Hoppe and Schanuel.  They don’t have to be All Stars to bring incredible value to the team.  They have to be above league average and create less question marks and less black holes in a line up.  Neto and O’Hoppe both seem to be above league average defensively, which we all know will help.  Schanuel, I have no idea how he is defensively, time will tell.  Looking at him he doesn’t look super athletic, but if he has good hands then he will be fine over at 1st base.  Mix that in with whatever Moniak brings to the table and we have some good young cost controlled players that truly help fill out a roster.  

Pitchers:

Canning, Sandoval, Detmers and Silseth are all 27 or younger and have shown the ability to get major league hitters out.  I don’t know how to unlock what Sandoval is capable of, but it feels like he is the one that might be most affected by overthinking and extra data.  Last year he had a sub 3 ERA so the talent is there.  Detmers has great stuff, finished last year better than league average.  He will be a solid left handed pitcher for a long time.  Silseth is 23 and has good stuff on the mound.  He struggles after about 75 pitches with keeping up his velocity.  I have no idea if that is something that can improve over time with better conditioning.  At the very minimum I see him as a high leverage reliever.  Canning is still only 27 years old and could be a perfectly fine 3-5 pitcher.  Again all of these guys are club controlled and very valuable parts of a team looking to compete.  

Then you have the young relievers.  Joyce, Soriano and Bachman all look to have closer stuff.  If you can have guys like that, where you don’t have to throw closer money at closers in free agency, you have a leg up on a lot of other teams.  If they continue to develop and you can shorten the game, like the Reds once had with Charlton, Dibble and Myers, you will win a ton of games.  

 

Bottom line is this team isn’t as far away from competing as most think.  A lot of the pieces are already in place.  

I agree halos have some building blocks. I would add Adell, Moniak and Thaiss to this group. The future is not all cloudy and gray. 

[Reveille1984]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Except the actual talent wasn’t there from 2014-2021. So no, not really. Show me the 2014 version of Neto or O’Hoppe or Schanuel. Fletcher or Walsh weren’t close to Neto or Schanuel. Who were the back end relief arms in those years that looked like Bachman, Soriano or Joyce?  Morin? Bedrosian?  If you want to compare Sandoval Detmers to Skaggs or Heaney I think that’s fair. But then who is Silseth or Canning?  Tropeano?

I mean, we had Aybar/Simmons from 2014 to 2020 who were both very good to phenomenal.  Normally 3-4.5 WAR a season.  We'll be lucky if Neto ever consistently hits that level. 

I agree C/1B have been a black hole for sure outside of some decent years from Iannetta/Stassi.

I get the overall positive sentiment as well, but none of these are really cornerstone players unless we hit the lotto.  If O'Hoppe, Schanuel, and Neto all become above average everyday regulars that's probably a win for us given their question marks.  Maybe there's a world where Schanuel becomes Freeman and Neto becomes a 4 WAR defensive prodigy, but those are more fringe probabilities than likely.

Same with our SP group, right now it's looking like a barn full of 3-4 starters.  Having these guys young and cost controlled is nice, but similar to our position player talent there's nothing there that's projecting as a top flight arm.

Ultimately in a vacuum we have some nice pieces, but when compared to lineups even in just our own division like HOU/TEX... that's a hard hill to climb.  Per usual, If Trout/Rendon can stay healthy and productive next season and we can sign Ohtani and/or Giolito then yes, there's some hope.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Reveille1984 said:

I mean, we had Aybar/Simmons from 2014 to 2020 who were both very good to phenomenal.  Normally 3-4.5 WAR a season.  We'll be lucky if Neto ever consistently hits that level. 

I agree C/1B have been a black hole for sure outside of some decent years from Iannetta/Stassi.

I get the overall positive sentiment as well, but none of these are really cornerstone players unless we hit the lotto.  If O'Hoppe, Schanuel, and Neto all become above average everyday regulars that's probably a win for us given their question marks.  Maybe there's a world where Schanuel becomes Freeman and Neto becomes a 4 WAR defensive prodigy, but those are more fringe probabilities than likely.

Same with our SP group, right now it's looking like a barn full of 3-4 starters.  Having these guys young and cost controlled is nice, but similar to our position player talent there's nothing there that's projecting as a top flight arm.

Ultimately in a vacuum we have some nice pieces, but when compared to lineups even in just our own division like HOU/TEX... that's a hard hill to climb.  Per usual, If Trout/Rendon can stay healthy and productive next season and we can sign Ohtani and/or Giolito then yes, there's some hope.  

This thread is about the young players, rookies.  So bringing up Aybar and Simmons isn’t relevant. We have no idea if Neto, Schanuel, O’Hoppe are corner stone players.  We have no idea what the ceiling is for Silseth or Detmers, but there’s no reason to assume they are 3-5. 

[Waybackman]

Hope we all live long enough to see the Halos field a winning team.

[thebloob]

When the good young talent you bring up doesn’t translate to wins it means other teams good young talent is better.  Hence the poor ranking of the farm system. 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, thebloob said:

When the good young talent you bring up doesn’t translate to wins it means other teams good young talent is better.  Hence the poor ranking of the farm system. 

Or it is more of a collection of talent problem or in our case a collection of talent combined with key injuries.  

[Swordsman78]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Or it is more of a collection of talent problem or in our case a collection of talent combined with key injuries.  

Bingo

[totdprods]

I still think they need to try and cash in on the value of someone like Sandoval (Ward or Rengifo are kind of here too) in a trade that nets a couple MLB-ready guys. 

I’m not totally sold on Perry, but I will give him credit that he seems to have a real good eye at identifying young players who can step right into MLB playing time and produce sooner than anticipated. 

I know this has Bavasi-esque connotations, but it is wild to me that Sandoval has a .327 WP% across almost 90 MLB games - only 16 wins to 33 losses. There’s talent there but I either think he’s scraping his ceiling already, or the Angels cannot unlock it. If Perry could turn him into another equivalent of the O’Hoppe/Moniak deals this winter, it should be pursued IMO. Cincinnati? Baltimore? Arizona?

[HBAngel13]

Great thread!  As painful and frustrating as this season has been, all the young talent on the MLB roster differentiates this era from the post 2014 teams. Whether or not it can translate to a pennant contending team remains to be seen, but you don’t have to squint too hard to see the skeleton of a solid club.  We are all jaded from the losing and I think this makes us discount the positives that are there.  

I really like Perrys moves to this point, especially the broadening of depth across the MLB roster.  With the minor league system in a rebuilding phase, it will be very important that he gets good value out of his free agency spend, especially if Ohtani comes back. Perry will need to succeed where Eppler didn’t  

Perhaps Perry’s best skills so far is how he a) owns and moves on quick from his own missteps (Fletcher, lack of depth in 2022), and b) makes bold, but calculated moves (Neto, O’Hoppe trade, Schanuel). We haven’t seen this level of dynamism from an Angels GM ever.  I like what I see and really hope he gets the opportunity to continue beyond 2024.