The Next 16 Days

[stormngt]

52 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Again, I know I don't represent the majority, but I still just think it's probably going to be counter-productive to make a big push if you're even 4 games out of the last Wild Card.  There are still two teams ahead of them for that slot, plus two more within two games of where the Angels currently are.  The Angels are essentially as close to having the same record as the Tigers as they are to getting into the last Wild Card slot.  To me, that's not a position that's crying out for making a push. 

"There are two teams ahead of them" before the WC.

We have the tue breaker agai st both Yankees and Boston.   Both teams have a lot of games against Orioles, Tampa Bay, and Toronto.

I am not worried about them.  I am worried about Toronto so IMO this is the series that very well determines things. 

1.  Sweep by Halos and they are 1.5 Back and we are buyers.

2. Win 2 of 3 and the Angels are 3.5 back and still on the fence.

3.  Lose 2 of 3 and we would be 6 back in loss column.  We should be sellers, but would be stubborn and not sell.

4.  A sweep by Toronto and we dump everyone we can.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

"There are two teams ahead of them" before the WC.

We have the tue breaker agai st both Yankees and Boston.   Both teams have a lot of games against Orioles, Tampa Bay, and Toronto.

I am not worried about them.  I am worried about Toronto so IMO this is the series that very well determines things. 

1.  Sweep by Halos and they are 1.5 Back and we are buyers.

2. Win 2 of 3 and the Angels are 3.5 back and still on the fence.

3.  Lose 2 of 3 and we would be 6 back in loss column.  We should be sellers, but would be stubborn and not sell.

4.  A sweep by Toronto and we dump everyone we can.

A tie-breaker only matters if there's a tie, obviously.  They're still ahead of the Angels.

[stormngt]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

A tie-breaker only matters if there's a tie, obviously.  They're still ahead of the Angels.

Yes but the AL East has a lot of games with each other.  

Yanks has 3 games against Baltimore 

3 games against TB

6 against Red Sox

7 games against Houston

3 games against ATL

Boston has

2 v ATL

3 v SF

3 v Seattle

3 v Toronto

6 v NY

7 v Houston

3 v Dogs

3 v TB

3 v Balt

Both Boston and Yanks will have a hard time playing 500 ball down the next two months.  And if they go on a big run they probably will be doing it against teams we are also chasing: Houston and Jays.

Angels will jump both teams 8f we win at 60% clip.

If we don't win at 60% clip we won't be making the WC anyway.

[jsnpritchett]

21 minutes ago, stormngt said:

If we don't win at 60% clip we won't be making the WC anyway.

I cut out the rest of your message, because this is all that really matters--and it's why I'm in favor of trading Ohtani and others.

[stormngt]

24 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I cut out the rest of your message, because this is all that really matters--and it's why I'm in favor of trading Ohtani and others.

Sure thing.

I prefer to wait until after the Toronto series.  Lose the series then we should trade.  Sweep it (then only 1.5 games out) them we should buy.

[T.G.]

If the Angels fail over the next 16 games, the future of baseball will be in doubt.

So, I'm told.

[fan_since79]

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

If the Angels fail over the next 16 games, the future of baseball will be in doubt.

So, I'm told.

Well according to the climate alarmists, we have only a few years left before the planet burns up. I'm hoping we make the playoffs before everything ends.

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

A tie-breaker only matters if there's a tie, obviously.  They're still ahead of the Angels.

Does your opinion change if we are tied with them or 1/2 game back going into the deadline?

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Does your opinion change if we are tied with them or 1/2 game back going into the deadline?

I'd still only be in favor of upgrades that don't cost much in prospect/controllable player capital. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'd still only be in favor of upgrades that don't cost much in prospect/controllable player capital. 

I agree with the exception of guys that will be here past this year. 

[HanfordGuy]

7 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I assume that Perry has been working the phones hard to bring in two veteran solid enough relievers with control through 2024.

Gonna be tough to attack the tough schedule through August with only Estevez, Moore and lately Loup who can be relied on.

Perry right now.

[fan_since79]

A sweep of Detroit (that doubleheader day was glorious) and then...THUD.

Two losing series and first two games lost against Seattle. Ward gone, Neto gone. Five games back of 3rd wild card. Desperate for a split at this point.

Let's just win tonight's game. Nevin's last stand?

[Angelsjunky]

As for this idea of "Nevin's last stand," it is weird because over the course of the season, I've actually grown to respect him more as a manager. Sure, he makes some weird--even occasionally--head-scratchingly disastrous calls, but what manager doesn't?

But more to the point, he has somehow kept this team somehow still trying and on the outskirts of contention, despite losing nearly everybody to injury.

Not saying that I think he deserves a contract and long-term job, but I'm less certain that he doesn't.

[SoCalDucksFan]

55 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

As for this idea of "Nevin's last stand," it is weird because over the course of the season, I've actually grown to respect him more as a manager. Sure, he makes some weird--even occasionally--head-scratchingly disastrous calls, but what manager doesn't?

But more to the point, he has somehow kept this team somehow still trying and on the outskirts of contention, despite losing nearly everybody to injury.

Not saying that I think he deserves a contract and long-term job, but I'm less certain that he doesn't.

Honestly, a manager/coach can only do so much.  Sure, they can definitely be responsible for wins and losses here and there, but it all balances out over the course of a season.  Or in this case, more than 1 season.  Excrement starts at the top, and rolls downhill from there.  Nevin can only stop so much of it, before it rolls right over him too.  The only option as a fan, is to stop supporting the team by going to games, hurting the owner's bottom line, but then you end up with a situation like Oakland, and saying goodbye to your team completely.

[Halo in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

As for this idea of "Nevin's last stand," it is weird because over the course of the season, I've actually grown to respect him more as a manager. Sure, he makes some weird--even occasionally--head-scratchingly disastrous calls, but what manager doesn't?

But more to the point, he has somehow kept this team somehow still trying and on the outskirts of contention, despite losing nearly everybody to injury.

Not saying that I think he deserves a contract and long-term job, but I'm less certain that he doesn't.

I agree. The players seem to really like him and I’m not sure how much his hands are tied when it comes to the pitching/bullpen usage. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

As for this idea of "Nevin's last stand," it is weird because over the course of the season, I've actually grown to respect him more as a manager. Sure, he makes some weird--even occasionally--head-scratchingly disastrous calls, but what manager doesn't?

But more to the point, he has somehow kept this team somehow still trying and on the outskirts of contention, despite losing nearly everybody to injury.

Not saying that I think he deserves a contract and long-term job, but I'm less certain that he doesn't.

Watching the team I think there is no question that they are invested in playing winning baseball. I see a lot of drive and a lot of passion from most of the guys. Pretty common to see groups in the dugout talking baseball and that’s something I feel like we haven’t seen in the past few years.

[SoCalDucksFan]

22 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Watching the team I think there is no question that they are invested in playing winning baseball. I see a lot of drive and a lot of passion from most of the guys. Pretty common to see groups in the dugout talking baseball and that’s something I feel like we haven’t seen in the past few years.

It's a relief to know that these well compensated players are invested in playing winning baseball, since after all, that is their job, for which they are highly paid.  Also a good thing that for the 2 1/2 hours they're on the field and in the dugout, they're talking baseball, rather than the latest Mission Impossible movie.  Those should pretty much be the baseline for every single player in the league.  Any one of us could do the same.  The real question is, how much talent do they possess.  Some, like Ohtani & Trout, have extreme amounts of talent.  Others have apparently inconsistent amounts of talent.  And still others, are plain out bad, and serve merely to fill out the roster.

[greginpsca]

40 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Watching the team I think there is no question that they are invested in playing winning baseball. I see a lot of drive and a lot of passion from most of the guys. Pretty common to see groups in the dugout talking baseball and that’s something I feel like we haven’t seen in the past few years.

I just think the org is going about it the wrong way. In the off seasons, they go after players based on what they did in the past. The teams that go after players based on what they think they will do in the future, currently are doing much better the the teams throwing money. I look at the Orioles, Marlins, Rays, Reds, Pirates,etc. Even the Astro's about a half dozen years ago. For Christ sake, the A's have fielded better teams than the Angels in the last 9 years. They develop from  the draft. Make trades based on the future of the guys they trade for. They know teams will take the name guy from them who makes more money. They go after guys who are "hungry". More often than not, once a player starts making big money, their production goes down. And the get injured more than the young guys. Guys like Rendon, Pujols, Hamilton , Upton are prime examples You can't teach youth, as the old saying goes. Yes they have down years. But doing it the Angels way has given us 9 years of squat! 

[AngelsLakersFan]

32 minutes ago, SoCalDucksFan said:

It's a relief to know that these well compensated players are invested in playing winning baseball, since after all, that is their job, for which they are highly paid.  Also a good thing that for the 2 1/2 hours they're on the field and in the dugout, they're talking baseball, rather than the latest Mission Impossible movie.  Those should pretty much be the baseline for every single player in the league.  Any one of us could do the same.  The real question is, how much talent do they possess.  Some, like Ohtani & Trout, have extreme amounts of talent.  Others have apparently inconsistent amounts of talent.  And still others, are plain out bad, and serve merely to fill out the roster.

You’re obviously missing the point. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

22 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

I just think the org is going about it the wrong way. In the off seasons, they go after players based on what they did in the past. The teams that go after players based on what they think they will do in the future, currently are doing much better the the teams throwing money. I look at the Orioles, Marlins, Rays, Reds, Pirates,etc. Even the Astro's about a half dozen years ago. For Christ sake, the A's have fielded better teams than the Angels in the last 9 years. They develop from  the draft. Make trades based on the future of the guys they trade for. They know teams will take the name guy from them who makes more money. They go after guys who are "hungry". More often than not, once a player starts making big money, their production goes down. And the get injured more than the young guys. Guys like Rendon, Pujols, Hamilton , Upton are prime examples You can't teach youth, as the old saying goes. Yes they have down years. But doing it the Angels way has given us 9 years of squat! 

Well this is a result of Moreno’s philosophy as it relates to marketing the team. Winning has never been a priority, it’s always come after selling the fans on recognizable names and a healthy operating profit.

 Building a team around young players means passing on recognizable names and faces. A youth focused rebuild is the antithesis of this strategy. This is not a front office baseball philosophy, it comes from the business side of the operation.

[fan_since79]

Whatever Moreno's "philosophy" is, it's not working. He should sell the team and take his billions in profit and let an owner who cares about winning bring this team out of its depressing hole.

I don't want the Angels to have 20 straight losing seasons like Pittsburgh did. I want a real race for the postseason! Sick of 3rd and 4th place.

 

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

Whatever Moreno's "philosophy" is, it's not working. He should sell the team and take his billions in profit and let an owner who cares about winning bring this team out of its depressing hole.

I don't want the Angels to have 20 straight losing seasons like Pittsburgh did. I want a real race for the postseason! Sick of 3rd and 4th place.

 

Well I think that's the point about Moreno's philosophy: it is working towards his main goal, which is making money. In that way, the Angels aren't any different than half the team owners in MLB, for whom winning is just a secondary perk to profit. 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Well I think that's the point about Moreno's philosophy: it is working towards his main goal, which is making money. In that way, the Angels aren't any different than half the team owners in MLB, for whom winning is just a secondary perk to profit. 

This is sad but likely true.  Moreno has made tons and tons of money owning this team.  I am sure he'd like to win, but his #1 priority is having marketable names on the team and furthering profit.  Trading Ohtani would have gone against the marketing part.  I am guessing Moreno will indeed make a spirited attempt to re-sign Ohtani, but if Ohtani's #1 goal is to win beyond all else and not just going with the top offer, it would be hard to imagine him staying here at this point.  Hate to say that, but it goes without saying there are other large market teams who have a much more consistent track record of making the playoffs that will likely offer something similar to whatever we will offer Ohtani.

[SoCalDucksFan]

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I am guessing Moreno will indeed make a spirited attempt to re-sign Ohtani, but if Ohtani's #1 goal is to win beyond all else and not just going with the top offer, it would be hard to imagine him staying here at this point.  Hate to say that, but it goes without saying there are other large market teams who have a much more consistent track record of making the playoffs that will likely offer something similar to whatever we will offer Ohtani.

This is exactly right.  I'd even go so far as to say that the Angels won't be able to match what other Playoff teams are going to offer him.  So basically, Ohtani will be giving up the chance to play with a Playoff team, he'll also likely be doing so for less money.

If he really wanted to stay in Anaheim, he would have had serious contract extension negotiations with them already.  He either had already made up his mind that he was gone, or else he was waiting to see how well the last couple of seasons turned out.  Either way, the writing is on the wall.

[fan_since79]

7-18 in this 25-game stretch.

So much for that...