Diagnosing this franchise

[DMVol]

37 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Adell had 830.1 innings in LF and 871 innings in RF, this year its basically split between the two with half as many starts in CF too...

In the minors, he's actually played more CF than anywhere else, 1114 innings. 

and Ward was a better hitter last year when he primarily played RF....shouldn't matter, but..

 

Wouldn't be totally surprised if Ward plays CF and Moniak sits against LHP, with Renfroe in RF and Adell in LF.....not sure what you do at 1b? Maybe Moose, who isn't bad against LHP.....

[REDneck]

Terminal?

[Mark PT]

20 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

It turns out that way, but...dial back to March, and the team looked a lot better than it did in October of 2022. There was reason to be at least cautious hopeful.

My quick opinion is that all hiters swing for the fences so runners dont move and pitchers are more concerned with velocity rather than location. 

[Mark PT]

4 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

For a simple contusion?!

I'm so over him. How many more years are we stuck with him?

should send him to single-A for the remainder of his contract.

[Angel Oracle]

10 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think we're going to be shocked and awed at the bidding war and see $50M AAV as the low-end. Could be wrong, of course.

I also wouldn't be surprised if someone offers him something like 3/$200M or 4/$250M.

I like the 3 years/$200 million idea, because we don’t know how long Ohtani can do both hitting and pitching at a high level.

[CaliAngel]

On 7/4/2023 at 6:34 PM, Taylor said:

Yep. Nothing is different than it was on July 4, 2022. The folks who claim "this is a new year" are delusional. It's a trend.

I watched the first month of Angels baseball, and this team was playing WAY different than what we see now. 

Couple months go by and it's back to the same old thing...

On 7/4/2023 at 7:04 PM, robblin17 said:

The organization sucks at everything. They do nothing well. Until Arte Moreno sells the team, nothing is going to change.

100% even when it comes to fundamentals. We can have a guy on 3rd with nobody out, and this team won't score a run while the A's know how to have a sac fly. I think the question comes down to who is actually running this shit show? From the top to the bottom it's embarrassing. 

I was so happy that Arte was gonna sell, because he does nothing right and knows nothing about baseball. 

On 7/4/2023 at 7:26 PM, ten ocho recon scout said:

Well as far as the depth, we lost our CF (who was struggling), our 3B (who is always hurt), his insurance (Urshela), our hot hitting 2B, our projected 1B, our starting C, his phenom replacement, and our SS. And Moore from the pen.

The never ending injuries completely baffle me. 

I can't think of a team that goes through more of these than the Halos. 

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I like the 3 years/$200 million idea, because we don’t know how long Ohtani can do both hitting and pitching at a high level.

Ohtani will leave if he knows better.

[bruin5]

On 7/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, gurn67 said:

You build a winning organization through the farm system. Once you have a roster filled with quality players, and depth, then you can add a few high priced free agents to hopefully get you a championship. Look at the teams that have been consistently competing for a championship lately. That's the way its been done, other than the Rays that can skip the free agency part because their scouting, and development are unbelievable. 

I've gotten to the point where if the Angels are going to win around 75 games letting the kids play, then fine. Trade Ohtani. Go into a full rebuild. Ask Trout if he's willing to go through that. If not, find out who he would waive his no trade to. They're stuck with Rendon. The only way they're getting rid of that IL machine is by DFA'ng him. Trade anyone else who's a free agent at the end of the season. Build around the young talent.

This. Exactly. I’m tired of the treadmill of trying to field a competitive team by paying a high price for free agents. Doesn’t work. They need to be final pieces, not the foundation. Invest in the farm and scouting rather than large salaries for guys over 30. 

And, unless Arte wants to go big time in the front office, I am fine with Minasian. Nevin is done as far as I’m concerned. Even if he’s not at fault, we will easily end up under .500 during his tenure. 

[Blarg]

The Angels only have three big contract players. Trout, Rendon and Ohtani. But don't worry, they will be cutting payroll by $30 million in the off season. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

14 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The Angels only have three big contract players. Trout, Rendon and Ohtani. But don't worry, they will be cutting payroll by $30 million in the off season. 

Don't be so sure. They might find a way to give Renfroe $30 mil to stay.

[Blarg]

Fucking Arte!

[TheLordofOuts]

If there was ever a doubt that ownership is the main issue, there isn't one now.  We have needed pitching for a decade and Arte directs the gm to go out and get Rendon, Hamilton, and a bunch of other has-beens.  We need to somehow put together an class action lawsuit to force him to sell. 

[REDneck]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

The Angels only have three big contract players. Trout, Rendon and Ohtani. But don't worry, they will be cutting payroll by $30 million in the off season. 

Not the right 36 million.

[Angelsjunky]

[T.G.]

9 hours ago, TheLordofOuts said:

We need to somehow put together an class action lawsuit to force him to sell

I'm not an Arte fan, but this is downright funny. Good luck with that nonsense.

[Chico]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:50 AM, Taylor said:

100% he has.

 

On 7/5/2023 at 2:36 PM, gurn67 said:

You build a winning organization through the farm system. Once you have a roster filled with quality players, and depth, then you can add a few high priced free agents to hopefully get you a championship. Look at the teams that have been consistently competing for a championship lately. That's the way its been done, other than the Rays that can skip the free agency part because their scouting, and development are unbelievable. 

I've gotten to the point where if the Angels are going to win around 75 games letting the kids play, then fine. Trade Ohtani. Go into a full rebuild. Ask Trout if he's willing to go through that. If not, find out who he would waive his no trade to. They're stuck with Rendon. The only way they're getting rid of that IL machine is by DFA'ng him. Trade anyone else who's a free agent at the end of the season. Build around the young talent.

I like this Gurn. First, Moreno has to go. He just doesn't learn from his mistakes and I mean HIS mistakes. He probably thinks he's a perfect owner because of his massive ego. As defacto GM, he prevents anything good from happening with his shortsighted, impulsive moves. 

The Angels should raid the Rays scouting and development team. Pour the money into that area, not paying hundreds of millions into wash-ups like Rendon, Pujols, Hamilton, Justin Upton and CJ Wison etc. Trout needs to go too; he's the opposite of clutch. Ohtani is leaving. Rendon is staying. Thanks Arte. Moreno's ego has killed this team and the first thing that needs to happen to enable good progress, is that Moreno has to eat some big salaries and then sell the team.

Another area is coordinating consistent hitting, pitching and fielding. Unfortunately the way things are, when the pitching is good (rarely), the hitting is no good. When the hitting is good, either fielding or pitching is no good. With hitting, these guys glorify the HR. They put on stupid hats, they revel in the moment and then they lose. I've said it before. You have to string many hits together to overwhelm the other team, like the 2002 Angels did. The big inning. You can't just swing for the fences. So stupid.

That 25-1 pasting of the Rockies is case and point. 21 runs in two innings. It's not all about homers. But you may recall, the Angels lost that series. How!?!?!

[T.G.]

5 minutes ago, Chico said:

Who told him to sign Tendon?

Who is this Tendon guy and why isn’t he on the 26 man roster?

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 hours ago, T.G. said:

Who is this Tendon guy and why isn’t he on the 26 man roster?

I think he should be criticized for signing a message board poster and avid twitter commentator.

[Jason]

If I were a baseball doctor I’d diagnose them as being shitty at baseball. 

[T-angel]

If this ship doesn't get turned around this season, I can see Arte putting the team up for sale again. No matter what, I don't think Nevin and Matt Wise will survive the aftermath. 

[disarcina]

Angels franchise going nowhere fast.

Ohtani needs to be dealt at deadline because he's not signing long term here.

But Halos probably won't do that.

Arte's proposed sale of the club - now off the table - was the best bet for the Angels to move on to be a big market contending club -- Arte as a sole owner (with some investors) just can't compete with the. conglomerate ownership interests like the Dodgers and.other teams.

Not necessarily a knock on Arte - although he's. certainly made some mis-steps (Josh Hamilton being one example) but he just  does not provide the economic wherewith all to compete with the better capitalized ownerships -- meanwhile - from an owner's standpoint, the Angels are a great franchise - the fan base seems to show up at the 30,000 per game attendance range, win , lose or draw.  Weather is. nice, particularly this time of year - so evenings at the ballpark are pleasant. it's a great entertainment option and a winning team would be nice, but not really all that necessary to make a profit.  The. team can and. has drifted under this scenario for years.

Right now the Angels have,  perhaps, the best player to ever play the game (two way Ohtani) and a legitimate. HOF'er (Trout) who seems to have  hit his mid-career point a bit prematurely with all the injuries he's sustained.  We have these great players and still can't move the needle.  

We're in free fall heading into the. All Star Game.  There's no playoffs in our future this season..  The switch out of Madden for NEVIN which. never made. much sense to me - seems to me , anyway, to make less sense now.   Oh well.

When all is said and done, 30,000 will show up at the ballpark.  Fun time had by all. Oh well.

[Stradling]

I think Arte will sell the team in the next couple of years and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s within a year. I don’t think we will see a press release saying the team is up for sale, I think one day we will get a press release saying the team has been sold pending league approval. Probably to someone who initially showed interest. 

[Hubs]

21 hours ago, disarcina said:

Angels franchise going nowhere fast.

Ohtani needs to be dealt at deadline because he's not signing long term here.

But Halos probably won't do that.

Arte's proposed sale of the club - now off the table - was the best bet for the Angels to move on to be a big market contending club -- Arte as a sole owner (with some investors) just can't compete with the. conglomerate ownership interests like the Dodgers and.other teams.

Not necessarily a knock on Arte - although he's. certainly made some mis-steps (Josh Hamilton being one example) but he just  does not provide the economic wherewith all to compete with the better capitalized ownerships -- meanwhile - from an owner's standpoint, the Angels are a great franchise - the fan base seems to show up at the 30,000 per game attendance range, win , lose or draw.  Weather is. nice, particularly this time of year - so evenings at the ballpark are pleasant. it's a great entertainment option and a winning team would be nice, but not really all that necessary to make a profit.  The. team can and. has drifted under this scenario for years.

Right now the Angels have,  perhaps, the best player to ever play the game (two way Ohtani) and a legitimate. HOF'er (Trout) who seems to have  hit his mid-career point a bit prematurely with all the injuries he's sustained.  We have these great players and still can't move the needle.  

We're in free fall heading into the. All Star Game.  There's no playoffs in our future this season..  The switch out of Madden for NEVIN which. never made. much sense to me - seems to me , anyway, to make less sense now.   Oh well.

When all is said and done, 30,000 will show up at the ballpark.  Fun time had by all. Oh well.

I don't agree with your first part. Ohtani is a once in 100 year player, I don't think you deal him unless you are overwhelmed with a prospect offer, like legit 3 top 50 prospects and a young major league pitcher. Then I suppose you consider it, and try to resign him in the fall. But wherever he finishes the season will have a leg up on re-signing him.

The Angels have been a top big market contending club for most of the past 20 years. They are not Gene Autry's middle market club anymore, and they with the best players in the game, haven't translated to success on the field, because of injuries, bad GM's, and bad managers (the past 5 years). Scioscia is missed for sure. 

The biggest problems with this franchise is Arte is not competing with the best ones in terms of front office talent and scouting, player development, and having a non-baseball mind run the team, in John Carpino. They need to hire an experienced former GM as team president, or someone like Stan Kasten to run the non-baseball operations, and a guy like Beane, Friedman, Epstein, to run the baseball operations. The team hasn't been the same since Stoneman left, honestly, that was the last experienced guy they had running the team. Reagins, Dipoto, were terrible, and while Eppler and Minsasian have been better, the over reach discussed by Maddon by Minasian in his book is a major major red flag to me, and is always defended here, but honestly while he is building a good minor league system and has had some success with major league trades and free agency, still hasn't translated into on field success, sustained success.

Nevin is a terrible manager and it shows. They shouldn't have hired him for 2023, and they should've signed someone on a two or three year contract that is a veteran manager, with success, and would've motivated and coached this team to be successful.

 

 

 

[Angels in 2030]

5 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think Arte will sell the team in the next couple of years and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s within a year. I don’t think we will see a press release saying the team is up for sale, I think one day we will get a press release saying the team has been sold pending league approval. Probably to someone who initially showed interest. 

From your lips to Gods ears.  I sure hope so.  But i can't let myself ever get my hopes up again...i'll believe it when i see it

[disarcina]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think Arte will sell the team in the next couple of years and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s within a year. I don’t think we will see a press release saying the team is up for sale, I think one day we will get a press release saying the team has been sold pending league approval. Probably to someone who initially showed interest. 

that consortium of investors that have the ownership interest in the LA Rams (if I have this right) were the ones I thought would win the bidding war to buy the team from Arte and also be able. to pass muster. with MLB owner's vetting committee.  I think your assessment  regarding sale is a good hunch and may actually assist in the. Ohtani signing process - because this  team's value. will vary quite a bit with that variable : Team value WITH Ohtanj/ Team Value without Ohtani .   Ohtani is just unreal. What player  in MLB history led the league /majors in Home runs and also had the lowest batting average against him as a starting pitcher.   Unbelievable!