Is the Rendon deal a bust?

[T-angel]

Shohei not coming back next year would at least free up 30 million (which is his salary this year). Also if Rendon's contract could be jettisoned, thats another 38 million. That along with not resigning Renfroe and Urshela gives you another 20 million and adds up to 88 million available. If you know you are going to lose Shohei anyways, it would be great to go into the offseason with that amount of change to spend.  Will it happen? Probably not. Do I want it to happen? No. Personally, I don't believe in trading generational players no matter what.

But I've pondered it many times when considering what a Shoehei trade would look like, and I can't imagine what prospects would we get that would be worth it.  Minasian seems to make more shrewd decisions than previous regimes so I feel he can be trusted to spend the money wisely. If it allows us to sign  three 3-4 war type players, that ultimately may net us the best outcome in the long run, as opposed to betting on some prospects. I defintely welcome all opinions on the subject especially if you can provide a new perspective I haven't considered yet.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, REDneck said:

I honestly don't give a shit what they

do with Ohtani at this point, but if I did I wouldn't berate other people because of their opinion.

I have stated how I feel about Ohtani in another thread...look it up if you're so inclined...I guarantee you I had more class than to call someone stupid or an idiot if they had a different opinion.

Going forward I don't want to spend any more time going back and forth with someone like you...take er easy!

 

 

 

So no conversation?  Ok. I didn’t call him stupid. He had a terrible idea. Thanks for the talk. 

[Justin]

I have changed my vote. 

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, Justin said:

I have changed my vote. 

[Angelsjunky]

10 hours ago, T-angel said:

Also if Rendon's contract could be jettisoned, thats another 38 million.

[UndertheHalo]

They should trade Ohtani and make whoever gets him take Rendon 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

They should trade Ohtani and make whoever gets him take Rendon 

Maybe we could include Craig in the package too.

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Maybe we could include Craig in the package too.

Fuck and a way better post also.  Bravo to the @T-angel

Edited July 8, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Fuck and a way better post also.  Bravo to the @T-angel

But would you rather get more or less for Ohtani?  

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But would you rather get more or less for Ohtani?  

Honestly if someone will just take the Rendon contract that’s enough.  I don’t really care about the return otherwise.  It’s a far more guaranteed value than fucking around with more prospects.  Take all the money and try to restart the effort to build around Trout and our young guys over the next couple of free agent classes.  Neto, O’Hoppe, Detmers and several of the others is a much better situation than when Mike re signed. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

obviously you get what you can in terms of players back.  But get rid of Rendon priority 1. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

Honestly if someone will just take the Rendon contract that’s enough.  I don’t really care about the return otherwise.  It’s a far more guaranteed value than fucking around with more prospects.  Take all the money and try to restart the effort to build around Trout and our young guys over the next couple of free agent classes.  Neto, O’Hoppe, Detmers and several of the others is a much better situation than when Mike re signed. 

I totally disagree.  There is no more value removing money than gaining any type of prospect capital.  I don’t give a shit if Arte has to pay $38 million a year for Rendon. Freeing up the money is no guarantee that bad money won’t then be spent.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

obviously you get what you can in terms of players back.  But get rid of Rendon priority 1. 

If you get rid of Rendon as part of an Ohtani trade there is no “players” coming back.  

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If you get rid of Rendon as part of an Ohtani trade there is no “players” coming back.  

I mean you can disagree.  I don’t give a shit lol.  Not like you’ve been right about anything more than the rest of us.  And I said I don’t expect players back.  Obviously they won’t be getting meaningful players back. 

[UndertheHalo]

And of course the Angels may well fuck up again with new contracts.  We’re talking about the Arte Moreno Angels.  Their substantial track record is being bad at fielding teams.  Whether that’s via free agency or the farm or whatever.  You disagree that’s fine.  But I’ll reiterate.  To me, if they have to lose Ohtani, and that seems like the most likely outcome today.  Then it makes sense to me that their most rapid path to being competitive is taking this freed up $100 million or whatever and hopefully resetting the team around trout and the young guys with good major league players over the next couple of years.  
 

Arte will still need to spend to the levels he is now.  
 
anyway, pretty long shot that any team is going to take Rendon.  The guy is a fucking disaster.  They’d probably rather trade the prospects then take that massive amount of dead money.  Anthony Rendon will never be a worthwhile major leaguer in relation to that contract.  Never.  Copy this.  Keep in your revisit folder or whatever. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

And of course the Angels may well fuck up again with new contracts.  We’re talking about the Arte Moreno Angels.  Their substantial track record is being bad at fielding teams.  Whether that’s via free agency or the farm or whatever.  You disagree that’s fine.  But I’ll reiterate.  To me, if they have to lose Ohtani, and that seems like the most likely outcome today.  Then it makes sense to me that their most rapid path to being competitive is taking this freed up $100 million or whatever and hopefully resetting the team around trout and the young guys with good major league players over the next couple of years.  
 

Arte will still need to spend to the levels he is now.  
 
anyway, pretty long shot that any team is going to take Rendon.  The guy is a fucking disaster.  They’d probably rather trade the prospects then take that massive amount of dead money.  Anthony Rendon will never be a worthwhile major leaguer in relation to that contract.  Never.  Copy this.  Keep in your revisit folder or whatever. 

Ok

[AngelsMetsWS]

8 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

They should trade Ohtani and make whoever gets him take Rendon 

That’s the trade. Ohtani and Rendon for a bucket of baseballs. 
Put the cash all into scouting, analytics and player development. 

[gurn67]

Along with Rendon, can they make them take what's left on Anderson's contract too?

[AngelsMetsWS]

14 minutes ago, gurn67 said:

Along with Rendon, can they make them take what's left on Anderson's contract too?

As long as Arte will settle for a half bucket of balls. 
 

one of my favorite posts on AngelsWin was a year or so ago where it was posted Ohtani was traded to the Dodgers straight up for a 200 page Manuel entitled “how to draft and develop players”

funny funny and funny true!!

 

[itsKnoppUitsme]

4 hours ago, gurn67 said:

Along with Rendon, can they make them take what's left on Anderson's contract too?

Anderson is a heaping pile of garbage!

[Ron Mexico]

I maybe wrong but doesn't ReDONE have a no trade Clause ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[T-angel]

Rendon does have a no trade clause, but if he's going to be traded to a club that would be vying for a championship, he is more than likely to waive it, I would believe.

The whole idea of attaching Rendon to an Ohtani trade isn't so far fetched. There are examples of teams taking on players and salary, where the benefit to the other trading partner was salary relief.  In 2012, the Red Sox and Dodgers made a trade where the Dodgers acquired Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, and Nick Punto that added over $250 million in salary to the Dodgers. It can be said that Crawford, and to a certain extent Beckett were salary dumps in that trade; and the Dodgers took that on to get Adrian Gonzalez.

When you are mired in a decade of mediocrity like the Angels are, then what else is there to do than to start thinking out of the box, because if we keep on doing the same things expecting different results that is the very definition of insanity.

[Stradling]

20 minutes ago, T-angel said:

Rendon does have a no trade clause, but if he's going to be traded to a club that would be vying for a championship, he is more than likely to waive it, I would believe.

The whole idea of attaching Rendon to an Ohtani trade isn't so far fetched. There are examples of teams taking on players and salary, where the benefit to the other trading partner was salary relief.  In 2012, the Red Sox and Dodgers made a trade where the Dodgers acquired Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, and Nick Punto that added over $250 million in salary to the Dodgers. It can be said that Crawford, and to a certain extent Beckett were salary dumps in that trade; and the Dodgers took that on to get Adrian Gonzalez.

When you are mired in a decade of mediocrity like the Angels are, then what else is there to do than to start thinking out of the box, because if we keep on doing the same things expecting different results that is the very definition of insanity.

So speaking of that decade of mediocrity, you are basically continuing that trend by attaching Rendon to Ohtani, which means you are trading your most valuable asset to get rid of money versus trading him for a collection of prospects that could make your team better in the future.  

[DMVol]

21 minutes ago, T-angel said:

When you are mired in a decade of mediocrity like the Angels are, then what else is there to do than to start thinking out of the box, because if we keep on doing the same things expecting different results that is the very definition of insanity.

I agree….or at the very least think a little differently…

[AngelsLakersFan]

I just dont see how this team is subtracting one Ohtani and adding $90 mill in FA's away from being a contender.

What players are we adding to this team with that $90 mil?

You are basically subtracting 12-13 wins off the current roster and then hoping to buy them back at $90 mil, which is supposed to get you around 10 wins on the FA market if you play it right.

To actually improve the team you will need to attach players to trade for some under paid (yet still expensive compared to league minimum) players. Essentially this is pushing more chips in on this team, while also losing Ohtani.

That said, it would be a prototypical Arte Moreno move, and be very much in line with the way he has operated this franchise over the last decade. With this approach I think the team is a safe bet to play around .500 for the next few seasons. Of course simply losing Ohtani makes .500 a  real question going forward.