How would you feel about a rebuild if the Angels fail to make the playoffs in 2022?

[floplag]

I think its long overdue.
Being average is a death sentence in any of these leagues.
For years all we talked about around here was growing sustainable success, well, you have to actually have success to sustain anything and weve been a 500 team while the farm has gone backwards.
Whatever we pay trout should just be above an beyond payroll, but clearly Arte doesn't see it like that and wont go beyond established limits and its just not good enough.
Im on board, whatever that means. whoever we lose, its time. 

[Lou]

25 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

We've kind of gone over this many times over the last few years

2022 AngelsWin Motto

[stormngt]

14 hours ago, mmc said:

If the Angels once again fail to make the playoffs, and Ohtani won’t agree on an extension in the offseason, how would you feel if the organization just decided to go full rebuild and punt on trying to win with the current core?  We have some emerging young talent that would be kept (Marsh, Adell, Detmers), and with the pieces we would return in trades/get from high draft pick, it’s not hard to envision us eventually developing a core that could be even more successful than what we’ve gotten from the Trout era.
 

This of course is dependent on Ohtani not re-signing.  Other people probably feel different, but I personally have no interest in entering 2023 with expiring Ohtani.  My preference is to sign him but if he won’t, the team has tough decisions to make.  How would you feel if the team decided to punt and try to get the most value out of everyone older (Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Walsh, Stassi, Rendon?, Fletcher?, Iglesias?), and instead looked to do a hard reset to try again with a new core built around Marsh, Adell, Detmers, and our other prospects + whatever additional futures we get?

If Ohtani doesn't want to sign an extension then you to trade him!

One outfielder needs to be traded:  Ward, Walsh or Adell.  

I do not see anyone wanting Rendon.

I am not sure what the value is for Fletcher.

I guess the only thing you would add in this hypothetical is trading Trout.

 

[Erstad Grit]

I don't think Rendon has any value at all

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, DMVol said:

To move Trout, we would have to eat a significant portion of his deal....while that might free up some money, I don't think it is realistic to talk about moving Trout or Rendon....Ohtani is a different question....he would net a huge return and I'd rather get something than let him walk....but that decision doesn't have to be made now....see where the rest of the season goes and how amenable he is to a new deal....

First it would be Trout's decision and he would have to make a list of teams he would accept. With NL having DH now that would help. Yes some money would have to be part of any deal. Yes have too see how season plays out. Rendon not going anywhere and yes you cannot let Ohtani walk. If you can't win when Ohtani is a cheap player how can you win when he will cost over 40 mill a year. 

[Puget Sound Angel]

Not as long as Trout and Shoei are on the team.

[Taylor]

40 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I don't think Rendon has any value at all

You don't think Rendon is worth a few rondons?

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

You don't think Rendon is worth a few rondons?

No but with 38 mill u can buy many calzones

[greginpsca]

Not sure what a rebuild would entail. At the end of the season the contracts of Upton and Thor will be off the books. That is about $49 mil.  That leaves Trout, Iglesias and Rendon as the only glaring contracts remaining, not counting any possible extension for Ohtani. Out of those 3, the only one that stands out for the team might want to get out from under would be Rendon.  That would give the team approximately another $35 mil to work with.  I don't think that happens, unless they eat a good portion of that contract. Also players like Suzuki, Duffy, Barria, Suarez, Mayfield, Wade will probably be gone, as they will be out of options. Depending on how he plays upon his return is Fletcher. He might be a trade piece. Doubt he brings much back in trade. 

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

Their problem is commitment.  If they want to win with Trout and Ohtani then they needed to sign a legit SS, another OFer, and another SP.  The Angels have depth.  The problem is they've made that depth their starters.  Adell, Duffy, Velasquez, Ward, and Marsh should have all started this season as depth.  Instead they were all battling for starting positions.  

On the flip side I definitely don't want them to trade Trout, but as long as he and Ohtani are on this team they will never be bad enough to get a top draft pick.  That is why the Angels are forever in mediocrity.  Won't go all in and try to win and won't go all in and rebuild.  

As good Ward has played, you really think he should have been depth?

Marsh is average players.  How often do we have below average guys playing?

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

Not sure what a rebuild would entail. At the end of the season the contracts of Upton and Thor will be off the books. That is about $49 mil.  That leaves Trout, Iglesias and Rendon as the only glaring contracts remaining, not counting any possible extension for Ohtani. Out of those 3, the only one that stands out for the team might want to get out from under would be Rendon.  That would give the team approximately another $35 mil to work with.  I don't think that happens, unless they eat a good portion of that contract. Also players like Suzuki, Duffy, Barria, Suarez, Mayfield, Wade will probably be gone, as they will be out of options. Depending on how he plays upon his return is Fletcher. He might be a trade piece. Doubt he brings much back in trade. 

Fletcher contract is not good way he is playing

[eligrba]

11 hours ago, Taylor said:

Jeter?

That would be entertaining. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:27 PM, mmc said:

If the Angels once again fail to make the playoffs, and Ohtani won’t agree on an extension in the offseason, how would you feel if the organization just decided to go full rebuild and punt on trying to win with the current core?  We have some emerging young talent that would be kept (Marsh, Adell, Detmers), and with the pieces we would return in trades/get from high draft pick, it’s not hard to envision us eventually developing a core that could be even more successful than what we’ve gotten from the Trout era.
 

This of course is dependent on Ohtani not re-signing.  Other people probably feel different, but I personally have no interest in entering 2023 with expiring Ohtani.  My preference is to sign him but if he won’t, the team has tough decisions to make.  How would you feel if the team decided to punt and try to get the most value out of everyone older (Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Walsh, Stassi, Rendon?, Fletcher?, Iglesias?), and instead looked to do a hard reset to try again with a new core built around Marsh, Adell, Detmers, and our other prospects + whatever additional futures we get?

Your post is about 10 years too late

[AngelsLakersFan]

22 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

point still stands.  they kept Rasiel in the hopes of re signing him?  right?  And if they've been rebuilding, then they're doing it wrong.  you don't rebuild by signing half assed guys that you hope catch lighting.  You spend 20m on a really good player for a 1yr pillow and trade them at the deadline.  And you move everything that isn't nailed down which you feel isn't a cornerstone.  And you don't spend 170-190m during a traditional rebuild.   Maybe that's part of the problem.  Organizational confusion.  Let's build a half assed team around two or three really good players and ignore everything else. 

Sorry.  but we haven't been rebuilding.  and we haven't even been retooling.  tooling.  I think we've just been tooling.  

This is a rebuild “Angels style” and it’s a fool proof plan for generating consistent .500 seasons.

[AngelsLakersFan]

14 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

If you were singing Perry's praises after he decided to spend heavily on the pen, and now you're talking rebuild consider your previous positions/thought processes and tread carefully.

Also, some of you are forgetting that bullpen volatility works both ways.  

It doesn’t make sense. If Perry can’t be trusted to build a winning franchise around Ohtani, Trout and the rest of the current core, why would you trust him with a rebuild?

[Dtwncbad]

The team doesn’t need a “rebuild.”  The core is plenty to build around and there are many other talented players already here.

The team needs some help.  The correct couple of acquisitions would make all the difference.

The Angels didn’t have the prospect capital to make any decent acquisitions over the last many years.  They have some now.

There are some younger arms now in the organization that can help fairly soon.

The correct plan is a little boring.  Have a little more patience for Detmers and Sandoval to each increase their contribution to the rotation, Walsh/Marsh/Adell mature and increase their contribution, and somebody like Bachman becomes relevant. . .

Then, at the right time, you make the acquisition you need like a high impact shortstop and whatever “one more” impact arm (either bullpen or starter) and this team is loaded.

This is not a time to tear anything down.  It is painful after all this time of losing, but in my view that are darn close to being where they need to be, provide they don’t overreact and do something drastic (like try to start over on a “rebuild”).

[floplag]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:00 PM, Docwaukee said:

point still stands.  they kept Rasiel in the hopes of re signing him?  right?  And if they've been rebuilding, then they're doing it wrong.  you don't rebuild by signing half assed guys that you hope catch lighting.  You spend 20m on a really good player for a 1yr pillow and trade them at the deadline.  And you move everything that isn't nailed down which you feel isn't a cornerstone.  And you don't spend 170-190m during a traditional rebuild.   Maybe that's part of the problem.  Organizational confusion.  Let's build a half assed team around two or three really good players and ignore everything else. 

Sorry.  but we haven't been rebuilding.  and we haven't even been retooling.  tooling.  I think we've just been tooling.  

I agree, this is accurate in my view.
They have done enough to keep the revenue steady, not near enough to actually compete.
Hoping for a little luck to make the post instead of going for it taking someones else getting lucky to stop it.

[T.G.]

The Angels will not only make the playoffs,  they'll also win the World Series, the Super Bowl, the Stanley Cup and sweep the Oscars.  The only playoffs they'll miss is the NBA's.

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, True Grich said:

The Angels will not only make the playoffs,  they'll also win the World Series, the Super Bowl, the Stanley Cup and sweep the Oscars.  The only playoffs they'll miss is the NBA's.

Maybe but right now it just feels like the Angels are basically Chris Rock standing there stunned saying, “Will Smith just smacked the shit out of me.”

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

It doesn’t make sense. If Perry can’t be trusted to build a winning franchise around Ohtani, Trout and the rest of the current core, why would you trust him with a rebuild?

Focusing on adding multiple middle RP in FA is just a bad move in general, regardless of the GM. 

I doubt he makes those moves had he more faith in the pitching in the system entering the season.  It's a much easier decision to pass on middle RP today than it was last offseason.  I still wouldn't have done it, but I'm a believer of the failed SP route to dominant BPs.

The Yankees success with spending on BPs has been to focus on closers and having them pitch as non closers.  But not everyone is willing to spend 35-40 mil on three guys who won't close as they have done.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Focusing on adding multiple middle RP in FA is just a bad move in general, regardless of the GM. 

I doubt he makes those moves had he more faith in the pitching in the system entering the season.  It's a much easier decision to pass on middle RP today than it was last offseason.  I still wouldn't have done it, but I'm a believer of the failed SP route to dominant BPs.

The Yankees success with spending on BPs has been to focus on closers and having them pitch as non closers.  But not everyone is willing to spend 35-40 mil on three guys who won't close as they have done.

I mean, if you aren't spending a bunch, there is a certain logic to signing 3 or even 4 guys on the cheap--- if you only have one or two spots to fill. If you need three or four guys then you probably need to go back in time and rethink your approach to pitching. 

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

I mean, if you aren't spending a bunch, there is a certain logic to signing 3 or even 4 guys on the cheap--- if you only have one or two spots to fill. If you need three or four guys then you probably need to go back in time and rethink your approach to pitching. 

If you can get a few guys on the cheap absolutely.  I should have made it clear I meant spending at the high end of the FA RP pool.  The least volatile RPs end up as closers more often than not..   It's that volatility that makes middle RPs sketchy FA bets.  

People didn't like the cavalcade of misfits that Eppler brought in to try to fill gaps RP wise, but it's kind of hilarious that his biggest goof was chasing a former closer who was trying to reinvent himself.  

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

If you can get a few guys on the cheap absolutely.  I should have made it clear I meant spending at the high end of the FA RP pool.  The least volatile RPs end up as closers more often than not..   It's that volatility that makes middle RPs sketchy FA bets.  

People didn't like the cavalcade of misfits that Eppler brought in to try to fill gaps RP wise, but it's kind of hilarious that his biggest goof was chasing a former closer who was trying to reinvent himself.  

Who would that be?

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

Who would that be?

Cody Allen.

Both he and Harvey were guys who were hoping they would magically find their FBs or were going to remake themselves.  I always name the guys I don't want the team to sign -- that offseason I listed both Allen and Harvey as guys I wanted no part of..  

Eppy screwed the pooch.

[Blarg]

5 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

The team doesn’t need a “rebuild.”  The core is plenty to build around and there are many other talented players already here.

The team needs some help.  The correct couple of acquisitions would make all the difference.

The Angels didn’t have the prospect capital to make any decent acquisitions over the last many years.  They have some now.

There are some younger arms now in the organization that can help fairly soon.

The correct plan is a little boring.  Have a little more patience for Detmers and Sandoval to each increase their contribution to the rotation, Walsh/Marsh/Adell mature and increase their contribution, and somebody like Bachman becomes relevant. . .

Then, at the right time, you make the acquisition you need like a high impact shortstop and whatever “one more” impact arm (either bullpen or starter) and this team is loaded.

This is not a time to tear anything down.  It is painful after all this time of losing, but in my view that are darn close to being where they need to be, provide they don’t overreact and do something drastic (like try to start over on a “rebuild”).

I rarely agree with you but this is one of the few posts in this thread that makes sense.