Mariners fans finding out what Angels fans already knew!

[Taylor]

I got a rare like from tdawg.

 

[Lou]

Just now, m0nkey said:

Speaking of kelenic, he is 6 for 27 with 2 walks and 15ks since getting sent down

Good to see him improving.

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I got a rare like from tdawg.

 

Seriously?  What did it feel like? 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

 

For those not familiar with the reference:

 

How the hell did I miss that? 

[Taylor]

Just now, Lou said:

Seriously?  What did it feel like? 

It's happened several times before, so now it's no big deal.

But the first time felt like [censored].

[Lou]

Just now, Taylor said:

It's happened several times before, so now it's no big deal.

But the first time felt like [censored].

[AngelsLakersFan]

18 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Dipoto drama aside, it is actually an interesting question: When is it time to accept that you're not going to make the playoffs or even seriously contend? And is the answer different for fans, players, and management?

To the last, I'd suggest, "yes." This acceptance should be quickest from management--though they should probably keep it quiet, at least at first--then fans, then players. But management needs to be as objective as possible, so as to avoid desperation moves. But that also means not cashing in your chips prematurely.

Look at the Red Sox. Yes, they're 10 games out, but they've won five in a row and eight of their last ten, and went from 11-20 to three games below .500. Should they give up, or focus in and try to ride this hot streak back into contention? Obviously the latter.

The Mariners are also ten games out. But it is early. Chances are they're not good enough to catch the Astros, or even earn a wild-card berth, but should fans not still hope magic can happen? Certainly the players shouldn't give up. I mean, at the least they can do what all bad teams do: Play to win the game, to bolster your stats (and earning potential) and, well, for the fun of it. And fans? Maybe they can soften the rest of the year by having reasonable expectations, but hope springs eternal.

And of course, to quote Al Pacino in Any Given Sunday, the game has to be about more than just winning, just as life has to be about more than just "living for the weekend" in whatever form - the high points. I mean, look at Ted Williams. He played in one World Series, and in the first half of his career. He played on some good teams, but the Red Sox didn't make the postseason again until 1967, seven years after he retired. Yet he still managed to be arguably the best hitter the game has ever seen. Certainly something drove him other than winning.

And some of us here were fans before 2002. I mean, 1987-2001 was brutal (and it wasn't like the years before that were great, but at least they reached the postseason three times in the previous nine seasons). After 2002, and especially by 2005 or so when the Angels had their first two years in a row making the postseason, our collective consciousness around expectations changed. Before 2002, we all assumed the Angels would be mediocre. They were rarely truly bad, but also rarely a contender. Just mediocre. 

But for the last two decades, we've shifted to becoming a franchise that expects more. Back before 2002, I don't know how I got through the year. I think I was more focused on individual players, and just the fun of watching baseball, checking the box-scores and stats, and hoping my favorite players had solid years. But there was also still hope, and there was that brief moment in 1995 when it seemed we'd finally get that homegrown team that would do something. But we fell back into darkness. But there was dawn, and 2002-09 was a fun time (even if agonizing once we hit the postseason).

But it really sucks to be a Mariners fan. They haven't reached the postseason in 21 years, since that historic 116-win 2001 season. And when they've had moments when it looked like things were shifting - 2016, 2018, 2020 (every other year) - they fell back to earth. I mean, at least we've been consistent in our mediocrity every year over the same span. And 90 wins last year...it is reasonable that people would be mad at their 17-25 start.

I still think the Mariners are better than they've played, and should finish in 3rd place (consolation prize!). But Dipoto hasn't really taken the franchise forward in a meaningful way, but fans can at least enjoy the blossoming of Julio Rodriguez, and they've a few other good young players. 

The Mariners are rudderless and talentless. Last year was a total fluke. With Dipoto at the helm there is really no future for that franchise. Check back in with them in another decade.

[Taylor]

Ippei once tweeted about the "but the Mariners" thing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

How the hell did I miss that? 

You were undoubtedly busy liking one of Taylor's posts.

[tdawg87]

Just now, Taylor said:

Ippei once tweeted about the "but the Mariners" thing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

There was more work to be done, and I did it.

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

You were undoubtedly busy liking one of Taylor's posts.

It's not what you think.

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

There was more work to be done, and I did it.

I retract my "Like". 

I'm too lazy to actually "unlike" it, but just know that THAT particular like comes with an asterisk.

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I retract my "Like". 

I'm too lazy to actually "unlike" it, but just know that THAT particular like comes with an asterisk.

[bloodbrother]

28 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

The Mariners are rudderless and talentless. Last year was a total fluke. With Dipoto at the helm there is really no future for that franchise. Check back in with them in another decade.

Best part about it was Dipoto and Servais getting multi-year extensions off of it

https://www.mlb.com/news/jerry-dipoto-scott-servais-agree-to-extensions

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, bloodbrother said:

Best part about it was Dipoto and Servais getting multi-year extensions off of it

https://www.mlb.com/news/jerry-dipoto-scott-servais-agree-to-extensions

What was their run differential?

-50?

Yep, that’s sustainable.  

[TroutField]

23 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

What was their run differential?

-50?

Yep, that’s sustainable.  

They won a ridiculous amount of 1 run games if I remember correctly, the M’s never learn. 

[Second Base]

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Dipoto drama aside, it is actually an interesting question: When is it time to accept that you're not going to make the playoffs or even seriously contend? And is the answer different for fans, players, and management?

To the last, I'd suggest, "yes." This acceptance should be quickest from management--though they should probably keep it quiet, at least at first--then fans, then players. But management needs to be as objective as possible, so as to avoid desperation moves. But that also means not cashing in your chips prematurely.

Look at the Red Sox. Yes, they're 10 games out, but they've won five in a row and eight of their last ten, and went from 11-20 to three games below .500. Should they give up, or focus in and try to ride this hot streak back into contention? Obviously the latter.

The Mariners are also ten games out. But it is early. Chances are they're not good enough to catch the Astros, or even earn a wild-card berth, but should fans not still hope magic can happen? Certainly the players shouldn't give up. I mean, at the least they can do what all bad teams do: Play to win the game, to bolster your stats (and earning potential) and, well, for the fun of it. And fans? Maybe they can soften the rest of the year by having reasonable expectations, but hope springs eternal.

And of course, to quote Al Pacino in Any Given Sunday, the game has to be about more than just winning, just as life has to be about more than just "living for the weekend" in whatever form - the high points. I mean, look at Ted Williams. He played in one World Series, and in the first half of his career. He played on some good teams, but the Red Sox didn't make the postseason again until 1967, seven years after he retired. Yet he still managed to be arguably the best hitter the game has ever seen. Certainly something drove him other than winning.

And some of us here were fans before 2002. I mean, 1987-2001 was brutal (and it wasn't like the years before that were great, but at least they reached the postseason three times in the previous nine seasons). After 2002, and especially by 2005 or so when the Angels had their first two years in a row making the postseason, our collective consciousness around expectations changed. Before 2002, we all assumed the Angels would be mediocre. They were rarely truly bad, but also rarely a contender. Just mediocre. 

But for the last two decades, we've shifted to becoming a franchise that expects more. Back before 2002, I don't know how I got through the year. I think I was more focused on individual players, and just the fun of watching baseball, checking the box-scores and stats, and hoping my favorite players had solid years. But there was also still hope, and there was that brief moment in 1995 when it seemed we'd finally get that homegrown team that would do something. But we fell back into darkness. But there was dawn, and 2002-09 was a fun time (even if agonizing once we hit the postseason).

But it really sucks to be a Mariners fan. They haven't reached the postseason in 21 years, since that historic 116-win 2001 season. And when they've had moments when it looked like things were shifting - 2016, 2018, 2020 (every other year) - they fell back to earth. I mean, at least we've been consistent in our mediocrity every year over the same span. And 90 wins last year...it is reasonable that people would be mad at their 17-25 start.

I still think the Mariners are better than they've played, and should finish in 3rd place (consolation prize!). But Dipoto hasn't really taken the franchise forward in a meaningful way, but fans can at least enjoy the blossoming of Julio Rodriguez, and they've a few other good young players. 

Hope.  Hope will get you there if you can find it.  Sometimes you have to look pretty damn hard but it's there.  Somewhere.  Some would argue that if you've gotta look that hard then it's not worth it.  But it is if you decide it is.  You can't make something about one thing in order to get enjoyment out of it.  2002 hasn't made me more or less passionate about the Angels.  I'm also a Vikings fan.  Lack of a championship hasn't stopped me.  I still enjoy UCLA football.  And UCLA basketball about as equally and they've had pretty different trajectories over the years.  

but F the mariners.  I hope they lose 90 games.  I'd enjoy that.  

  

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

What was their run differential?

-50?

Yep, that’s sustainable.  

FUN DIFFERENTIAL!!!

[Docwaukee]

was that a real article btw?  I can't believe I read most of that.  I got about half way through and was like 'what the hell am I doing'.  

[Inside Pitch]

From an ESPN+ article today about the season's disappointments 

Seattle Mariners: General despair

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/33972533/is-panic-braves-warranted-bellinger-turn-early-verdict-mlb-biggest-disappointments

I'm on a text chain with some Mariners fans, and, boy, is it depressing. After an encouraging 11-6 start, the Mariners have gone 6-20 in their past 26 games to fall well behind the Angels and Astros in the AL West. Last year's 90-win season sparked hope that THIS WOULD FINALLY BE THE YEAR -- you know, ending the majors' longest playoff drought. Instead, the Mariners have a below-average offense, below-average rotation, below-average bullpen, a lack of depth, are bad on the bases, and Jarred Kelenic was so lost he had to be sent back to the minors (where he has continued to struggle).

For a team that was outscored by 51 runs last season, it simply didn't add enough -- and it needed the bullpen to again produce spectacular late-game results. But that group has been hurt by injuries to Casey Sadler (out for the season) and Ken Giles (hasn't pitched), plus Diego Castillo and Drew Steckenrider haven't pitched well, which has left Paul Sewald as the only reliable reliever. As for the rotation, out of 62 qualified starters in MLB, Chris Flexen and Marco Gonzales rank 59th and 61st in slugging percentage allowed, respectively, while Robbie Ray and Flexen rank 56th and 59th in ERA.

Verdict: The Panic Is Real. Sunday's Tacoma box score summed up the state of the Mariners. Kelenic went 0-for-4 with three strikeouts. Evan White was hitless. Kyle Lewis was there on injury rehab. Justus Sheffield started and pitched well, lowering his ERA to 8.36. Matt Brash, who started the season in the big league rotation, allowed five runs in one inning of relief. At one point or another, these guys were all supposed to be key parts of the 2022 Mariners (and beyond). Instead, they are playing for a terrible Tacoma team.
_____________________________________

Not sure why he is arguing the offense is below average as they have hit pretty well, but I may have to switch from calling JD, "Teflon Jerry" to, "General Despair"

[m0nkey]

On 5/23/2022 at 6:43 PM, m0nkey said:

Speaking of kelenic, he is 6 for 27 with 2 walks and 15ks since getting sent down

Jared kelenic now has a higher BA and OPS than Jo Adell in AAA. Either he pans out or is the definition of a AAAA player

[Puget Sound Angel]

This story blew up Seattle sports radio the day it was released.