Jared Walsh Hypothetical

[totdprods]

Starting off, this is not at all what I'd want to see, but I know it was mentioned a bit last winter that Minasian could look at pursuing Freddie Freeman given his SoCal roots and the Braves connection. 
Robert Murray at Fansided speculated further today that the Angels, Dodgers, and Yankees could be interested given that he's reached the open market. 

If the Angels were interested in Freeman and reached a deal, there's a couple different things they could do. 

They could turn around and trade Walsh, almost in the same manner as the rumored Marsh for Meyer deal. 
I imagine the Dodgers, Yankees, Walsh's hometown Braves (ironically), the Rays, the Indians could all have considerable interest in him, and have enough young, MLB-ready SP to make an offer in return. 

Alternatively, Walsh has the arm to handle RF, and I believe, with some work, could probably grow have at least league-average defense out there. This would make it easier to move Marsh or Adell in a trade for a young SP. 

I think almost every one of us will immediately respond with "No! We don't need a 1B! We need pitching!!!" but let's just say something like this actually does come to fruition...

Let's say the worst happens and the Angels make the same mistake and sign an expensive vet 1B.
Which would you rather see? Walsh moved for an arm, or Walsh moved to RF and an OF prospect moved for an arm? Who could Walsh bring back in a trade?
Would a ~5/$130m deal be better spent on Freeman or Robbie Ray? Keeping in mind that while both Freeman or Ray costs a draft pick, signing Freeman allows us to deal Walsh/Adell/Marsh, probably landing us a SP around the equivalent of that pick. Freeman could be a safer investment.

Edited November 15, 2021 by totdprods

[arch stanton]

Does he improve the rotten defense? Are we really ready to invest in another FA 1B? I'd rather spend the money or trade capital on a MI

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Does he improve the rotten defense? Are we really ready to invest in another FA 1B? I'd rather spend the money or trade capital on a MI

He's about average, at best. Maybe has a bit of an edge over Walsh purely from experience, but Walsh has room to grow. 

And again, this is less about if Freeman is a good idea or what we'd prefer instead of Freeman, and more about what you'd like to see if Freeman happened (regardless of it being a good idea)...

Does Walsh go to RF or get traded?

[Angel Oracle]

I would prefer to not give another big contract to a 32 year-old 1B.

That didn’t work out so well 10 years ago.

Plus, rule of thumb is to not spend big on 1B.

[Junkballer]

Since we aren't discussing that he's 32 and his contract will certainly be lengthy, impacting the roster in the re-signing Ohtani phase, I'll say that I'd prefer that Walsh be moved.  Walsh still has an outfield learning curve and may never be better than passable and the DH spot is already crowded.  I'd prefer sending a quantity package out with Walsh for a less substantial arm than trading Marsh or Adell at this point.  I feel that trading those two at this juncture will not bring back their true value.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I would prefer to not give another big contract to a 32 year-old 1B.

That didn’t work out so well 10 years ago.

Plus, rule of thumb is to not spend big on 1B.

Right, but, in this scenario, it's out of our hands. Perry wants him, and he wants to be here, and Arte is all on-board. 

Which would you prefer, moving Walsh to RF and almost certainly dealing Adell/Marsh for pitching, or trading Walsh for pitching?

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, Junkballer said:

Since we aren't discussing that he's 32 and his contract will certainly be lengthy, impacting the roster in the re-signing Ohtani phase, I'll say that I'd prefer that Walsh be moved.  Walsh still has an outfield learning curve and may never be better than passable and the DH spot is already crowded.  I'd prefer sending a quantity package out with Walsh for a less substantial arm than trading Marsh or Adell at this point.  I feel that trading those two at this juncture will not bring back their true value.

I think I'd agree - Walsh seems like he'd maybe be a better bet at landing a quality SP who is already at an impact-level (and with club control) whereas Adell or Marsh would be more prospect-for-prospect, unless it was a major package, like for Castillo. But then you're giving up quality and quantity. 

Walsh for Plesac? Would that make sense?

The trade simulator has both at about the same value (25 for Walsh, 24 for Plesac). 
They both hit free agency going into 2026. 

Cleveland needs bats, Angels needs arms...so, in that scenario, would you prefer Freeman and Plesac or Walsh and let's say Robbie Ray?

Edited November 15, 2021 by totdprods

[arch stanton]

21 minutes ago, totdprods said:

He's about average, at best. Maybe has a bit of an edge over Walsh purely from experience, but Walsh has room to grow. 

And again, this is less about if Freeman is a good idea or what we'd prefer instead of Freeman, and more about what you'd like to see if Freeman happened (regardless of it being a good idea)...

Does Walsh go to RF or get traded?

You've upgraded Walsh by turning him into Freeman. Now he has to be part of a package which I guess also includes a young pitcher to get a relatively cost controlled SS who can defend the position

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

You've upgraded Walsh by turning him into Freeman. Now he has to be part of a package which I guess also includes a young pitcher to get a relatively cost controlled SS who can defend the position

Let's expand a bit here then...

Cleveland has two viable young shortstops they could entertain dealing in Amed Rosario and Andres Gimenez. 

Start with Jared Walsh for Zach Plesac since they're nearly identical in terms of value and club-control and match both teams' needs very well. 
The Angels could expand and work to acquire Rosario or Gimenez as a SS 2 or 3 year stopgap until one of Paris/Vera/Blakely/Placencia arrive. They could talk Marsh or Adell (eek), a young SP like Canning, Barria, or Suarez, or perhaps the next tier (Daniel, Bush), or start building around quantity with guys like Rengifo, Thaiss, Adams, the aforementioned shortstops.

Let's go with Rosario since he has a $5m arb price tag and has a lot more stability at SS than Gimenez at this point. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by totdprods

[angelsnationtalk]

This is tough.... too tough. 
The Angels need a top rotation arm. Is Ray that durable guy that you'd trust to take the ball in a game 7 situation? I don't think so. 
It boils down to Scherzer or Verlander. 

If Arte wants to open payroll a bit the do it, but only after pitching is taken care of. If it is then....
Sign Scherzer, sign Freeman and trade for Meyer so the 2nd arm is making league minimum. 
But that's an almost impossible scenario and it doesn't even address the bullpen or who plays shortstop. 

[Angelsjunky]

28 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I would prefer to not give another big contract to a 32 year-old 1B.

That didn’t work out so well 10 years ago.

Plus, rule of thumb is to not spend big on 1B.

Or 22 years ago.

[totdprods]

Also, with Freeman you alleviate some of those struggles vs. LHP that Walsh might not adjust to. 

Spending big on 1B is almost as ill-advised as spending big on frontline SP though...those deals often backfire.
Would you rather have a league minimum SP like Plesac or Meyer, or a league minimum 1B like Walsh?

[arch stanton]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Let's expand a bit here then...

Cleveland has two viable young shortstops they could entertain dealing in Amed Rosario and Andres Gimenez. 

Start with Jared Walsh for Zach Plesac since they're nearly identical in terms of value and club-control and match both teams' needs very well. 
The Angels could expand and work to acquire Rosario or Gimenez as a SS 2 or 3 year stopgap until one of Paris/Vera/Blakely/Placencia arrive. They could talk Marsh or Adell (eek), a young SP like Canning, Barria, or Suarez, or perhaps the next tier (Daniel, Bush), or start building around quantity with guys like Rengifo, Thaiss, Adams, the aforementioned shortstops.

Let' go with Rosario since he has a $5m arb price tag and has a lot more stability at SS than Gimenez at this point. 

As long as Rosario is ready to play now. A lineup with Trout, Rendon, Freeman, Ohtani in the middle is ready to win now. 

[totdprods]

Just now, arch stanton said:

As long as Rosario is ready to play now. A lineup with Trout, Rendon, Freeman, Ohtani in the middle is ready to win now. 

Rosario would be 26 in 2022. Couple years left of control. Iffy defense, but room to grow.
He hit .282/.321/.409/.731 with 25 doubles, 6 triples, 11 HR, 13 for 13 in SB, 31 BB, 120 K. Due to make $5m in arb, which may be a lot to Cleveland. Andres Gimenez could step in at SS for them, so they have an internal replacement already.

[arch stanton]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Rosario would be 26 in 2022. Couple years left of control. Iffy defense, but room to grow.
He hit .282/.321/.409/.731 with 25 doubles, 6 triples, 11 HR, 13 for 13 in SB, 31 BB, 120 K. Due to make $5m in arb, which may be a lot to Cleveland. Andres Gimenez could step in at SS for them, so they have an internal replacement already.

Can we live with iffy? I want a SS who can SS

[Blarg]

The Angels need a shortstop and back up catcher to complete the fielding for next season. Any proposal to aquire an expensive 1st baseman is saying, fuck it, let's continue to do the same bullshit that led to the last 6 years of mediocrity by tying up payroll on luxuries. You guys are chasing shiny objects not the division lead. 

1 shortstop

1 back up catcher

1 Grade A staring pitcher 

1 Closer

Off season completed. Payroll about tapped out. 

[T.G.]

If the Angels sign Freeman, Minasian is an idiot and Arte Moreno has lost his freakin' mind.

[totdprods]

@Blarg and @True Grich, yeah, no shit. So, would it be all that surprising? EDIT: Guess I can add @Erstad Grit here too now.
Again, this isn't about "Hey guys how about Freddie Freeman" but instead "Goddamnit, here we go again. What would you want to see in the aftermath?"
Y'all are so quick to react to the headline you aren't even reading what the discussion is about...

It's just like trading Trumbo for Skaggs and Santiago after Pujols. What would you want to see done? What would be the best moves if that happened?

Edited November 15, 2021 by totdprods

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

Can we live with iffy? I want a SS who can SS

Iffy so far, but, he's still young, was once a Top 5 prospect in baseball, and could still click and be a good defensive player. It's a gamble.

[Erstad Grit]

No just no

We need pitching so bad Renifgo or Mayfield at SS is a reality. 

We can't spend 180+ million  on an incredible yet aging 1B

 

 

[Blarg]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

@Blarg and @True Grich, yeah, no shit. So, would it be all that surprising?
Again, this isn't about "Hey guys how about Freddie Freeman" but instead "Goddamnit, here we go again. What would you want to see in the aftermath?"
Y'all are so quick to react to the headline you aren't even reading what the discussion is about...

It's just like trading Trumbo for Skaggs and Santiago after Pujols. What would you want to see done? What would be the best moves if that happened?

It seems you are the one promoting the idea, it's not anything the Angels have said they are interested in. So I'll say your scenario doesn't have any merit and it's also a stupid idea. 

Prove me wrong. 

[Erstad Grit]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

@Blarg and @True Grich, yeah, no shit. So, would it be all that surprising? EDIT: Guess I can add @Erstad Grit here too now.
Again, this isn't about "Hey guys how about Freddie Freeman" but instead "Goddamnit, here we go again. What would you want to see in the aftermath?"
Y'all are so quick to react to the headline you aren't even reading what the discussion is about...

It's just like trading Trumbo for Skaggs and Santiago after Pujols. What would you want to see done? What would be the best moves if that happened?

Oh I read it, and thought it was a terrible idea.

No chance Freeman only takes 5/130 unless he just wants to be a Brave so your entire premiss is skewed.  

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

It seems you are the one promoting the idea, it's not anything the Angels have said they are interested in. So I'll say your scenario doesn't have any merit and it's also a stupid idea. 

Prove me wrong. 

JFC, it's a discussion board. Who gives a shit? Just trying to talk about baseball and kick off something other than the same SP devolvement that happens in every other thread.

I could go read Facebook comments and get this same level of discussion.

[T.G.]

23 minutes ago, totdprods said:

@Blarg and @True Grich, yeah, no shit. So, would it be all that surprising? EDIT: Guess I can add @Erstad Grit here too now.
Again, this isn't about "Hey guys how about Freddie Freeman" but instead "Goddamnit, here we go again. What would you want to see in the aftermath?"
Y'all are so quick to react to the headline you aren't even reading what the discussion is about...

It's just like trading Trumbo for Skaggs and Santiago after Pujols. What would you want to see done? What would be the best moves if that happened?

I read every post in the thread...

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

 Minasian could look at pursuing Freddie Freeman given his SoCal roots and the Braves connection.

Freeman's So. Cal roots are meaningless and so is the Braves connection, IMO.