Building the 2022 Bullpen

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Obviously, our closer Raisel Iglesias should be our #1 priority. 

How would you "Build the Bullpen" with the arms on the current roster and available free agents or add in a trade?

Other Bullpen options in house: Jimmy Herget, Jose Marte, Jose Quidaja, Andrew Wantz, Austin Warren, Hector Yan, Sam Selman.

Other Bullpen/Starter Options: CROD, Kyle Tyler

Current Angel Free Agents: Steve Cishek, AJ Ramos,

Current Angel Arbitration Eligible: Junior Guerra, Mike Mayers - I believe they will both be Non-Tendered.

Current Free Agent Bullpen arms available that should be looked at **In alphabetical order by team**:

1. Chicago White Sox - Ryan Tepera 

2. Cincinnati Reds - Mychal Givens

3. Cincinnati Reds - Michael Lorenzen

4. Cleveland Indians - Bryan Shaw *Had a really good bounce back year in Cleveland*

5. Houston Astros - Kendal Graveman

6. Los Angeles Dodgers - Kenley Jansen

7. Los Angeles Dodgers - Corey Knebel

8. Milwaukee Brewers - Brad Boxberger

9. New York Mets - Brad Hand *lefty

10. New York Mets - Aaron Loup * lefty

11. Oakland A's - Yusmeiro Petit *He just keeps rolling and getting outs*

12. Philadelphia Phillies - Hector Neris

13. Philadelphia Phillies - Ian Kennedy

14. St. Louis Cardinals - T.J. McFarland * lefty

15. Tampa Bay Rays - Colin McHugh *Good year after sitting out Covid Season*

16. Toronto Blue Jays - David Phelps

17. Washington Nationals - Daniel Hudson 

[Erstad Grit]

Our "kids" have the potential to make a nice pen to compliment Iglesias and 1-2 proven guys. Hopefully Crod is healthy. Lots of good arms in this list. I'd stay away from Hand. 

[Vlad27Trout27]

Re-Sign Iglesias 45 mil/3 yrs

Mchugh 2 or 3 year deal  over 6 mil per year 

Take a shot for Knebel 

 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

17 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Our "kids" have the potential to make a nice pen to compliment Iglesias and 1-2 proven guys. Hopefully Crod is healthy. Lots of good arms in this list. I'd stay away from Hand. 

I understand the warning on Hand. However, in the "small sample size" with the Mets he got back to a SO/9.5 per inning. His FIP was up to 3.40 vs. an ERA of 2.70 so that is close, his WHIP still pretty good at 1.275.

As long as his K's/inning are up or even. I think he has value as a lefty setup guy/co-closer if they go that route? If Raisel goes elsewhere. 

Also, he would have TRADE VALUE if we implode again. Which would be better than Tony Watson you would think?

[BTH]

CL: Iglesias (4/$60M)

SU: Knebel (3/$27M)

SU: Mayers

SU: Hand (1/$4M)

MID: Waren

MID: Quijada

MID: Herget

LR: Wantz

[BTH]

58 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Current Angel Arbitration Eligible: Junior Guerra, Mike Mayers - I believe they will both be Non-Tendered.

Why do you think Mayers will be non-tendered? He's only projected to make ~$2M, and there's no way you get someone better for less money. He's the best reliever the Angels have under control for 2022.

[BTH]

48 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Our "kids" have the potential to make a nice pen to compliment Iglesias and 1-2 proven guys. Hopefully Crod is healthy. Lots of good arms in this list. I'd stay away from Hand. 

Normally, I'd stay away from Brad Hand, but I think now may actually be a time to buy-low on him, pending the contract he commands. I predicted 1/$4M, and I'd do that. I wouldn't sign him for upwards of $5-6 million or 2+ years though.

At worst, he's still better than some of the lefties the Angels have trotted out there in the past (Hoby Milner, Alex Claudio). At best, you get a good reliever at a lower price.

[drpiranha]

Resign Iglesias. Keep Mayers. I like Warren, Quijada and Wantz. Keep the 2 that do the best in Spring Training and let the 3rd close at SLC for experience. Sign a setup man for 8 mil and a decent arm for 4 mil. That's all they need. A seventh arm for the bullpen should only be used in blowouts.

 

[Erstad Grit]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

Normally, I'd stay away from Brad Hand, but I think now may actually be a time to buy-low on him, pending the contract he commands. I predicted 1/$4M, and I'd do that. I wouldn't sign him for upwards of $5-6 million or 2+ years though.

At worst, he's still better than some of the lefties the Angels have trotted out there in the past (Hoby Milner, Alex Claudio). At best, you get a good reliever at a lower price.

If you're correct I'd agree.

I was thinking he'd get 1/12-1/15 range as a closer

[tdawg87]

11 hours ago, Trendon said:

CL: Iglesias (4/$60M)

SU: Knebel (3/$27M)

SU: Mayers

SU: Hand (1/$4M)

MID: Waren

MID: Quijada

MID: Herget

LR: Wantz

28 million for the bullpen.

[BTH]

5 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

28 million for the bullpen.

Yeah, but what do the Angels need? Pitching. Starting pitching first, but relief pitching after that. That number also gets inflated because of Iglesias, who has been better than the average closer.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Yeah, but what do the Angels need? Pitching. Starting pitching first, but relief pitching after that. That number also gets inflated because of Iglesias, who has been better than the average closer.

I agree, but who are they gonna get for SP? And also shortstop?

I think at best we get Iglesias and a $1 million flyer.

[BTH]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I agree, but who are they gonna get for SP? And also shortstop?

I think at best we get Iglesias and a $1 million flyer.

I think they go with internal candidates (aka Rengifo to begin with) at SS.

As for SP, I think we end up getting underwhelmed again and see them sign two starters like Cueto for a 1 year deal at 8-10 million.

[HanfordGuy]

Boxberger could be an inexpensive arm. Looked like he got back on track last year with the Brewers.

[WicketMaiden]

40 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I agree, but who are they gonna get for SP? And also shortstop?

I think at best we get Iglesias and a $1 million flyer.

 

34 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I think they go with internal candidates (aka Rengifo to begin with) at SS.

As for SP, I think we end up getting underwhelmed again and see them sign two starters like Cueto for a 1 year deal at 8-10 million.

I think we have to trade for at least one of the major needs that we have.

Either for a closer, a good starter or decent SS, then hope we can fill the other needs via FA. I can't see the Angels becoming a contender without pulling off a trade for a major piece this off-season, I just hope Perry can get it done. 

[floplag]

19 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Our "kids" have the potential to make a nice pen to compliment Iglesias and 1-2 proven guys. Hopefully Crod is healthy. Lots of good arms in this list. I'd stay away from Hand. 

Ive been mostly lurking of late for various reasons but i gotta chime in here...
Those kids, also have the potential to be a very solid rotation.  Why relegate them to the pen for more expensive FA starters when SP is being so heavily devalued by the metrics and no one is going more than 5/6 innings tops anymore? 
They have the ability to be a good rotation, if we put a bullpen behind them to shorten games.
This is where the game seems headed.. ATL won a WS with 2 bullpen games!   Greinke went 4 was it, in the WS?  Freid was cruising and got pulled anyway... the era of the ace is over. 
Overpaying for SP which was already a bad investment just to push the kids to the pen seems counter productive in the current paradigm.
Build a lockdown pen, first... add an ace or anchor, whatever fine, but we cant have another year of clean peanut bullpen. 

[Hubs]

Yeah, Mayers is not going to be non-tendered. He didn't have as good of a year as his stretch in 2020 was, but he was still solid.

They have a lot of young guys, but you can't rely on them. But Bullpen is unreliable.

I'd resign Iglesias to 4/60.

9/14/15/16 with a 3M buyout of a 5th year option / or a 17M team option and a 3M signing bonus.

I'd resign Cishek to 2 years, 3M contract. 1.25 M in 2022, 1.75 M in 2023. I'd sign Watson to the same deal if he'd take it.

I'd sign Richards/ Lorenzen to one year flyers or minors deals. Or I'd sign Yusmiero Petit to 2 year deal at 4M. Or Blake Parker. 

I'd end up with a BP of Iglesias, Mayers, Watson, Cishek, Petit/Parker, with Warren, Quijada, and Herget rounding out the pen. Ortega, Richards or Lorenzen can have final spot.

It's not the best BP, but it will cost you around $9+$1.75+$1.75+$2M+2M = $16M for Pen.

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Yeah, Mayers is not going to be non-tendered. He didn't have as good of a year as his stretch in 2020 was, but he was still solid.

They have a lot of young guys, but you can't rely on them. But Bullpen is unreliable.

I'd resign Iglesias to 4/60.

9/14/15/16 with a 3M buyout of a 5th year option / or a 17M team option and a 3M signing bonus.

I'd resign Cishek to 2 years, 3M contract. 1.25 M in 2022, 1.75 M in 2023. I'd sign Watson to the same deal if he'd take it.

I'd sign Richards/ Lorenzen to one year flyers or minors deals. Or I'd sign Yusmiero Petit to 2 year deal at 4M. Or Blake Parker. 

I'd end up with a BP of Iglesias, Mayers, Watson, Cishek, Petit/Parker, with Warren, Quijada, and Herget rounding out the pen. Ortega, Richards or Lorenzen can have final spot.

It's not the best BP, but it will cost you around $9+$1.75+$1.75+$2M+2M = $16M for Pen.

Iglesias isn't going to sign a deal that pays him $9M next year.

[Hubs]

17 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Iglesias isn't going to sign a deal that pays him $9M next year.

It would be $12 with the $3M signing bonus.

 

[TroutCron]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

Yeah, Mayers is not going to be non-tendered. He didn't have as good of a year as his stretch in 2020 was, but he was still solid.

They have a lot of young guys, but you can't rely on them. But Bullpen is unreliable.

I'd resign Iglesias to 4/60.

9/14/15/16 with a 3M buyout of a 5th year option / or a 17M team option and a 3M signing bonus.

I'd resign Cishek to 2 years, 3M contract. 1.25 M in 2022, 1.75 M in 2023. I'd sign Watson to the same deal if he'd take it.

I'd sign Richards/ Lorenzen to one year flyers or minors deals. Or I'd sign Yusmiero Petit to 2 year deal at 4M. Or Blake Parker. 

I'd end up with a BP of Iglesias, Mayers, Watson, Cishek, Petit/Parker, with Warren, Quijada, and Herget rounding out the pen. Ortega, Richards or Lorenzen can have final spot.

It's not the best BP, but it will cost you around $9+$1.75+$1.75+$2M+2M = $16M for Pen.

All things given it is not wise to sign relief pitchers for more than one year with the caveat, established quality relievers can sign for up to three years. For TOR starters I wouldn’t give them more than 3-4 years depending on their age and injury history. 

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

It would be $12 with the $3M signing bonus.

 

Still not going to happen in the way that you've laid it out.  I'd be shocked if he doesn't get a higher AAV from someone.

[Hubs]

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Still not going to happen in the way that you've laid it out.  I'd be shocked if he doesn't get a higher AAV from someone.

Ok, so $11 with a $3M signing bonus. Still BP is on the cheap, and I could live with 4/64 or 3/48. 

The highest paid closers haven't really been paid that much more. 16M average is among the highest averages. Chapman, Hendriks, Jansen, all are around that mark.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/2021/salary/relief-pitcher/

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/salary/relief-pitcher/

Chapman got 3/48. Jansen got 5/80 Both $16M averages.

$11/$13/$15/$17 would be 4/56, which would be higher than what Hendriks got. His contract is weird though, as 

I'd expect this contract to land between 3/42 and 4/64.

No doubt there will be signing bonuses and options.

[BTH]

3 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

I think we have to trade for at least one of the major needs that we have.

Either for a closer, a good starter or decent SS, then hope we can fill the other needs via FA. I can't see the Angels becoming a contender without pulling off a trade for a major piece this off-season, I just hope Perry can get it done. 

Agreed. They can't just solely sign free agents and contend. A trade or two will need to be mixed in, as well as a shred free agent signing or trade.

[Hubs]

35 minutes ago, TroutCron said:

All things given it is not wise to sign relief pitchers for more than one year with the caveat, established quality relievers can sign for up to three years. For TOR starters I wouldn’t give them more than 3-4 years depending on their age and injury history. 

Then we'll be sitting around waiting. 2 years is ok for Cishek, Petit, and Watson, who all had good years. And we're talking less than $5M for all three. That's fine. I'd also look to acquire Jose Alvarez from the Giants. That trade was a terrible one by Eppler. 

And for SP, the big names will get 5-8 years. So 3-4 is gonna get you midrange guys at the best.

 

[34red4]

Iglesias: 3/$48m  15 | 15 | 15 | 15/3*

McHugh: 2/$14m  7 | 7

Hudson: 2/$10m  5 | 5

*Team Option/Buyout