Time to face the truth: this is not a good team

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

It's hard to imagine a team with Trout, Ohtani, Walsh and Rendon being below .500, but somehow the Angels have pulled it off, AND THEN SOME. 

It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Collectively, those guys should be worth like 25 WAR by the end of the year, and yet somehow, they're looking like they'll be at least 10 games under .500 by the end of the season. 

The level of suck from Suzuki, Butera, Iglesias, Upton, Pujols, Quintana, Heaney, Canning and the entire bullpen is truly mind-boggling. 

Outside of Trout, who did did Scioscia have from 2013 on?

I guess one team had Trout and tori Hunter. 

 

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

It's hard to imagine a team with Trout, Ohtani, Walsh and Rendon being below .500, but somehow the Angels have pulled it off, AND THEN SOME. 

Not if you've been awake at all and realize Trout and Rendon have spent time on the IL.  And not if you consider how bad the pitching and defense has been.  You should look at the WHOLE picture.

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Collectively, those guys should be worth like 25 WAR by the end of the year, and yet somehow, they're looking like they'll be at least 10 games under .500 by the end of the season. 

I'm guessing you've never heard the saying... pitching and defense wins games.

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

The level of suck from Suzuki, Butera, Iglesias, Upton, Pujols, Quintana, Heaney, Canning and the entire bullpen is truly mind-boggling. 

So, it is possible to imagine the team being this bad.  Please make up your mind.

Your post is truly mind-boggling.

[disarcina]

Season over time?

Trout out for six weeks?

Halos pitching failing (except for Ohtani) at all levels - back of the rotation and set up pen guys in particular.

each year the same?

this is getting old - once again.

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, disarcina said:

Season over time?

Trout out for six weeks?

Halos pitching failing (except for Ohtani) at all levels - back of the rotation and set up pen guys in particular.

each year the same?

this is getting old - once again.

It does seem like the games are just reruns.   We can predict the outcome.

1. Starter gets shelled

Or

2.  Bullpen blows the lead 

[Angelsjunky]

I was fiddling about with a blog article and wanted to look at how many above average hitters the Angels have had in the Trout era. The point being, what sort of offensive support has Trout had around him? We haven't had a quartet like we have now since...I don't know, ever?

Anyhow, here are all the average or above wRC+ (100+) for the lineup from 2012 through 2021, with at least 300 PA (or 100 in 2020-21):

2012: 167, 133, 131, 124, 119, 107, 103

After Trout, the 2012 had a solid supporting cast of Pujols (in his "career year" as an Angel), Hunter, Trumbo, Morales, Aybar, and Kendrick all offering average or higher offense.

2013: 176, 117, 112, 112, 107, 105

Here the support is Kendrick, Iannetta, Pujols, Trumbo, and Hamilton. This really began the "star and scrubs" era with Hunter gone, Pujols further declining, and the other guys not picking up the slack. Hamilton was supposed to be an upgrade on Hunter, but...

2014: 167, 125, 124, 123, 114, 113, 105, 101

Iannetta, Calhoun, Pujols, Kendrick, Hamilton, Freese, Aybar. This was the 98-win season and the lineup was very good, although there were still no other stars, but just a lot of above average to good hitters.

2015: 174, 114, 108, 104, 103

Pujols, Freese, Cron, Calhoun. The offense really plummeted.

2016: 170, 117, 114, 110, 107.

Calhoun, Cron, Pujols, Escobar. More of the same, but replacing Freese with Escobar.

2017: 180, 102. 

Only Simmons was above average. Now its getting ugly.

2018: 188, 149, 121, 106.

Ohtani, Upton, Simmons. Enter Ohtani, the first bonafide star-caliber hitter to play along-side Trout.

2019: 178, 121, 120, 107, 106.

Ohtani, La Stella, Goodwin, Calhoun. Kole's last year. La Stella and Goodwin were surprises, but Ohtani falling back left Trout as the lone star hitter again.

2020: 162, 154, 153, 137, 133, 123, 113.

Rendon, Walsh, Stassi, La Stella, Fletcher, Goodwin. Enter Rendon. That looks better than it actually was, considering that four of those guys barely went to plate more than 100 times. But it showed promise.

2021: 198, 167, 151, 104.

Walsh, Ohtani, Rendon. Hopefully Rendon will regress to his career norms. Once Trout gets back, this could be a truly potent heart of the lineup. Now if only some of the secondary guys can up their game...

Edited May 23, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[CanadianHalo]

@Stradling Yep

[tdawg87]

You can't do that until they have 82 losses.

[Angels 1961]

16 hours ago, disarcina said:

Season over time?

Trout out for six weeks?

Halos pitching failing (except for Ohtani) at all levels - back of the rotation and set up pen guys in particular.

each year the same?

this is getting old - once again.

I agree let's try something different now. Put Barria in rotation along with Sandoval, Bundy, Heaney, Canning and Ohtani. Put Quintana and Cobb in bullpen. Quintana and Cobb are not part of future for halos and give experience for Barria and Sandoval.

[CanadianHalo]

20 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

You can't do that until they have 82 losses.

The writing is on the wall for this season especially with Trout out for 2 months. 

At this point we’re better off if we lose 100 games so then maybe Arte realizes the approach this organization has taken the last 5 years doesn’t work. 

Hovering around .500 isn’t doing this franchise any good. Hopefully hitting rock bottom will make Arte rethink the way he runs things. If it doesn’t, at least we’ll have a top 3 pick.

[Fan61]

On 5/21/2021 at 10:17 PM, Angelsjunky said:

I bitched about it at length in the "Pause and Acknowledge" thread, so I'll try to be brief and summarize in bullet points:

• 7th year in a row of mediocrity
• We haven't won 90 games or made the playoffs since 2014
• Poor results despite having a top 10 payroll, year after year, #5 this year
• Farm system has some upside, but isn't deep and is weaker than I thought six months ago (I mean, look at those rosters!)
• No clear or easy fixes to be made

I could go on. The bottom line is that this is a mediocre at best, and could actually be a truly bad team. And it isn't like we have a farm system brimming with talent. In a best-case scenario, we're probably 2-3 years away from being good, and that's only if the Angels make far more good than bad moves, and history tells us that's unlikely. Meaning, we're continuing to tread water and the horizon is as far away as its been for the last few years.

Feel free to try to convince me otherwise, but I've been mostly playing an optimist for years and it is finally growing thin. If the place we want to get to is a perennial contending, 90+ win team, it is really hard to see how to get there from here, without putting on the rosy glasses.

I suppose the one ray of hope is, well, hope springs eternal. Why? Because baseball is a funny game, and things can change quickly. But, for now, this kind of sucks.

The current state of the Angels is BY DESIGN. Lack of a budding farm system and a owner who will not spend to sign elite pitching.  I would hate to be a GM or manager under this ownership. HOW long before Trout demands a trade???

 

[T.G.]

22 hours ago, Fan61 said:

HOW long before Trout demands a trade???

He asked for one yesterday.

He asked David Fletcher if he would trade his Almond joy for a Kit Kat.  Fletch declined.   Said sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

[Angels 1961]

23 hours ago, Fan61 said:

The current state of the Angels is BY DESIGN. Lack of a budding farm system and a owner who will not spend to sign elite pitching.  I would hate to be a GM or manager under this ownership. HOW long before Trout demands a trade???

 

For me depends on what the plan is. Minasian may go into a reset mode. If that happens I talk to Trout and find out what he is thinking.  His value will only go down as each year passes. 2022 does not look good as 80% of pitching staff will have to be replaced. Only a few teams would be able to take on his contract and Trout has a no trade clause in it. 

[Revad]

Correct me if I’m wrong but AW, culture wise, seems pissed off at the current state of affairs.

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, Revad said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but AW, culture wise, seems pissed off at the current state of affairs.

[Revad]

5 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

well we should be pisses, imho

[Jeff Fletcher]

On 5/22/2021 at 12:46 PM, Angels 1961 said:

How do Angels get good in 2 or 3 years? What's the plan? Minasian said we were on the cusp of winning of what a high draft pick?  I pissed off at losing year after year. Let's get halo baseball writers interview and interview Minasian or Moreno now. Ask some hard questions. Where do Angels go from here? Jeff Fletcher ask some questions, Minasian and Moreno as upset about losing as Angel fans? WHAT's NEXT,Rodger Lodge lifetime halo honk ask some hard question of these 2? Rodger  do not have people honk their horn 3 times while driving it's dangerous. Artie put suggestion box where people can help because last 6 years have been really bad.

Minasian is speaking to the media on Tuesday, per our request. Moreno isn’t talking. 

[mmc]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Minasian is speaking to the media on Tuesday, per our request. Moreno isn’t talking. 

Any chance it’s aired/streamed live somewhere?

[Angels 1961]

18 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Minasian is speaking to the media on Tuesday, per our request. Moreno isn’t talking. 

Thanks Jeff

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but AW, culture wise, seems pissed off at the current state of affairs.

Absolutely pissed off. Need answer from M%M leaders (I'm not talking Forrest Mars or Bruce Murrie). Need answer from Minasian and Moreno. What direction is this team going in. Do they have any answers. Many Angels fans have been around a lot longer than either one of these two. Also have supported this team for many years. I have for 60 years. I'm not blaming anyone but I'm sick of losing and Moreno I feel should address halo fans and answer questions about this team. In any business leadership comes from the top.

[WicketMaiden]

52 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Minasian is speaking to the media on Tuesday, per our request. Moreno isn’t talking. 

I'm sure you've got your own questions @Jeff Fletcher, but personally I'd really like to hear Minasian's thoughts on why he thinks the fielding and run prevention in general has been so poor. He highlighted this as a major focus of his during the introductory briefings.

Link to article quoting Minasian (3rd para from the end) https://www.mlb.com/news/perry-minasian-angels-gm-introduction 

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate the updates you post here.

[eligrba]

On 5/23/2021 at 2:24 PM, Fan61 said:

The current state of the Angels is BY DESIGN. Lack of a budding farm system and a owner who will not spend to sign elite pitching.  I would hate to be a GM or manager under this ownership. HOW long before Trout demands a trade???

 

You must be new.

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Minasian is speaking to the media on Tuesday, per our request. Moreno isn’t talking. 

Can you please ask Perry what the plans are for Albert’s home run counter that was in the outfield?

Thanks. Keep up the good work.

[Revad]

13 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Can you please ask Perry what the plans are for Albert’s home run counter that was in the outfield?

Thanks. Keep up the good work.

We honor Albert and count his presence on the team, what he did on and off the field, we count it.  He’s a counting stat.

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Minasian is speaking to the media on Tuesday, per our request. Moreno isn’t talking. 

[Junkballer]

6 hours ago, True Grich said:

He asked for one yesterday.

He asked David Fletcher if he would trade his Almond joy for a Kit Kat.  Fletch declined.   Said sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

Gimme a break.