Internal Rotation Improvement

[Hubs]

Wow! The Angels were terrible last year in the pitching department. I forget how bad until I look at stats.

They ended up giving up 868 runs. The year before, they gave up 722. That's 146 more runs. The ball was a bit juiced and the pitching staff was decimated by injuries. But a lot of guys just had poor performances, that were uncharacteristic. I think Callaway and Maddon fix a lot of what Doug White and Ausmus broke. The previous year, yes Scioscia had nearly 30 starts from Ohtani and Richards but every pitcher they both had regressed or performed significantly worse tahn in previous seasons...except some guys from the pen.

Take Jaime Barria. He had some good luck in 2018, with his FIP being more than a run worse than his ERA. But while his 2019 ERA more closely matches his FIP from that year, it's almost 2 runs worse than the year previous.  (4.58 vs. 6.23). He appeared to be throwing more strikes (and hittable pitches) as his SO9, H9, and HR9 were all up.

Look at Felix Pena. There wasn't as much of a difference, but he too had an increase in his FIP of about 1/2 run, and his SO9, H9, and HR 9 were up if not as significantly as Barria.

Check out Andrew Heaney. His FIP was up a little more than 1/2 a run, his SO9 and HR9 were both up.

I'm hoping Callaway will turn these guys around. That, the addiiton of Bundy (who I think Callaway will also help)and return of Ohtani should get us back to 2018 or 2017 levels. Adding another starter to eat 200 innings, will also help.

One other thing, I think they should look at is that they should try to get their starters to get through 6 IP, 162  @ 6 IP is 972 innings from the starters, when they averaged way less in 2019.

27 starts @ 6 IP is 162 innings, which I think every pitcher on the staff should be able to provide.

 

[angelsnationtalk]

Good post. I just hope Eppler isn't thinking the same thing and thinks "we don't need good arms when we've got Callaway to fix it!"

[Second Base]

[jchalos89]

Well, it's not just Ausmus. Since 2015, Angels have been sending entire pitching crew to DL and Angel fans been saying "we gonna be better if everyone gets back healthy next season" and that never freaking happened.

At this point, you can't expect any of those glass arms to be healthy next year. IF some of them do, if some of them somehow lives up to their potential, that's a good thing, but you just cannot EXPECT that to happen. 

It's safer to assume all those guys will be sent to DL again some time during the season and it makes a lot more sense to prepare for those situations cuz that's what's been happening to this team for 5 straight damn seasons.

[ten ocho recon scout]

23 minutes ago, jchalos89 said:

Well, it's not just Ausmus. Since 2015, Angels have been sending entire pitching crew to DL and Angel fans been saying "we gonna be better if everyone gets back healthy next season" and that never freaking happened.

At this point, you can't expect any of those glass arms to be healthy next year. IF some of them do, if some of them somehow lives up to their potential, that's a good thing, but you just cannot EXPECT that to happen. 

It's safer to assume all those guys will be sent to DL again some time during the season and it makes a lot more sense to prepare for those situations cuz that's what's been happening to this team for 5 straight damn seasons.

I think this is fair, given our past few years.

That said, youd have to expect that of every pitcher we aquire, too.

Canning still worries me. But there isnt a ton of choice with whos still available.

[Pancake Bear]

33 minutes ago, jchalos89 said:

Well, it's not just Ausmus. Since 2015, Angels have been sending entire pitching crew to DL and Angel fans been saying "we gonna be better if everyone gets back healthy next season" and that never freaking happened.

At this point, you can't expect any of those glass arms to be healthy next year. IF some of them do, if some of them somehow lives up to their potential, that's a good thing, but you just cannot EXPECT that to happen. 

It's safer to assume all those guys will be sent to DL again some time during the season and it makes a lot more sense to prepare for those situations cuz that's what's been happening to this team for 5 straight damn seasons.

Heaney is really the only guy on the staff this applies to. 

Also, the pitching coach have more effect on results than injuries. Sure, mismanagement can lead to injuries, but I don’t think that’s the issue we’ve had. 

[jchalos89]

3 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Heaney is really the only guy on the staff this applies to. 

Heaney obviously is one of those guys that has been getting hurt like every year (or every other year) but this team has been sending basically every pitchers to DL every season.

Those are pitchers this team sent to DL every seasons. I'm not including those minor pitchers who just pitched several ML games.  Just listing the ones that showed promise or was one of the center pieces for the team.

 

2015 - Heaney, CJ Wilson, Jered Weaver, Shoemaker, Morin

2016 - Skaggs (Rest in peace Tyler), Santiago, G Rich, Street, Heaney, Tropeano, Cory Rasmus, Cam Bedrosian

2017 - G Rich, Alex Meyer, JC Ramirez, Shoemaker, Skaggs, Heaney, Bridwell

2018 - G Rich, Tropeano, Ohtani Shohei, Keynan Middleton, Shoemaker, Blake Wood

2019 - Literally every single one of starting pitchers except for the ones Angels waived mid season (like the Nightmare Harvey, Stratton, etc)

[Pancake Bear]

8 minutes ago, jchalos89 said:

Heaney obviously is one of those guys that has been getting hurt like every year (or every other year) but this team has been sending basically every pitchers to DL every season.

Those are pitchers this team sent to DL every seasons. I'm not including those minor pitchers who just pitched several ML games.  Just listing the ones that showed promise or was one of the center pieces for the team.

 

2015 - Heaney, CJ Wilson, Jered Weaver, Shoemaker, Morin

2016 - Skaggs (Rest in peace Tyler), Santiago, G Rich, Street, Heaney, Tropeano, Cory Rasmus, Cam Bedrosian

2017 - G Rich, Alex Meyer, JC Ramirez, Shoemaker, Skaggs, Heaney, Bridwell

2018 - G Rich, Tropeano, Ohtani Shohei, Keynan Middleton, Shoemaker, Blake Wood

2019 - Literally every single one of starting pitchers except for the ones Angels waived mid season (like the Nightmare Harvey, Stratton, etc)

How is that relevant for this year?

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

How is that relevant for this year?

It’s not

[jchalos89]

2 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

How is that relevant for this year?

Cuz it's the same Angels team? This team had change in pitching coach under Scioscia and that didn't help, and changed manager and coaches to Ausmus crew and that didn't help either.

If Joe Maddon and Callaway can turn that around and keep those guys with injury history (Heaney, Ohtani, Middleton, Canning) healthy, that's great. But before it happens, before Maddon and his crew proves that they can manage to keep pitchers healthy, it's dumb to just expect those guys to be fully healthy all season long. This team's pitchers have been getting injured by walking on the street regardless who the manager (coach) is.

[Pancake Bear]

Just now, jchalos89 said:

Cuz it's the same Angels team? This team had change in pitching coach under Scioscia and that didn't help, and changed manager and coaches to Ausmus crew and that didn't help either.

If Joe Maddon and Callaway can turn that around and keep those guys with injury history (Heaney, Ohtani, Middleton, Canning) healthy, that's great. But before it happens, before Maddon and his crew proves that they can manage to keep pitchers healthy, it's dumb to just expect those guys to be fully healthy all season long. This team's pitchers have been getting injured by walking on the street regardless who the manager (coach) is.

TJ isn’t exactly typical fragility, but you do you. Like I said, the only person you can logically apply that to is Heaney. But, I mean, the same was true of Ryu before last year. Heaney could finally be healthy. 

I just don’t get how you think ‘they’ve always had lots of injuries on the pitching staff’ equals ‘they will again this year’. Is your contention that the Angels’ rotation is just cursed?

[jchalos89]

1 minute ago, Pancake Bear said:

TJ isn’t exactly typical fragility, but you do you. Like I said, the only person you can logically apply that to is Heaney. But, I mean, the same was true of Ryu before last year. Heaney could finally be healthy. 

I just don’t get how you think ‘they’ve always had lots of injuries on the pitching staff’ equals ‘they will again this year’. Is your contention that the Angels’ rotation is just cursed?

The reason I'm against signing Ryu for 4+ years is exactly that. His injury history is not only TJ, but also shoulder-the biggest one-, back, hamstring, and groin. After couple of decent seasons, he started getting injured like everywhere and the time he came back healthy and started performing great was right before hitting FA in 2018. No team was stupid enough to give him long term contract and he accepted QO for another shot at FA this year, and he had a career year, finishing 2nd in NL CYA. 2-3 yrs may worth a shot cuz his upside is super, but more than 4 years, I'm afraid Ryu will spend more than half of his contract on DL. Same for Heaney, if he does well, I'll be more than happy to see that (I had very high hopes for Hean dog ever since Angels acquired him via trade) but I would say Angels front office preparing season assuming he'll be healthy next year is too dangerous.

Most of those guys that's been getting hurt since 2015 are now retired or in other teams so let's say they are irrelevant to 2020 Angels, but some of those still here are the ones we see as big part of Angels future. Heaney has to be # 3 or 4 guy, Ohtani has to be a frontline starter, Middleton has potential to be future closer, and Canning is the best Angels pitching prospect as of now. However Heaney is an injury prone, Ohtani and Canning got hurt in their first big league campaign, Middleton got hurt in his 2nd season (1st as a closer) and given previous years of injury history, I think the team has to be really careful and be extra prepared in case of injuries next season. Usually I am against those "load management" thing, but with the Angels' pitching, I think it is a must at this point.

Now for some reason, I sound like I want the Angels to get rid of everyone cuz they are weak af   I'm not saying that. I'm just trying to say they have been very bad at managing pitchers (or their pitchers have been weak, or maybe they were just super unlucky for 5 years straight, whichever is the case) and some of Angels' center pieces (Ohtani,Heaney,Middleton,Canning) for 2020 and beyond are part of past injury histories and the team needs to be extra careful with them + needs to have plans in case of injuries. If you are in serious contention, trying to build a winning team, you can't have no backup plan and just call up whoever is pitching in Minors when somebody gets hurt, and let them post 6+ ERA.

[Hubs]

I don't think these lines are hard to achieve with help from the best pitching coach in the majors from 2013-2017.

Callaway's effect is real.

Cleveland's staff ranks in 2012 - 2017. (+1 year before Callaway).

2012 RA 845 (14th) , ERA 4.78 (14th).

2013 RA 662 (7th), ERA 3.82 (7th).

2014 RA 653 (5th)

2015 RA 640 (2nd)

2016 RA 676 (2nd)

2017 564 (1st)

 

Yes they got better pitchers than they had in 2012, by the end of Callaway's tenure, but the first year it was largely the same guys, and pretty much everyone improved.