Do you think the Angels will heavily pursue Anthony Rendon?

[kevinb]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

@Kevinb so Arte cares enough to fire the manager, but not enough to sign Cole?  When it is known that we are on Cole’s short list?  I don’t buy it.  Plus there is a huge difference between “selling” 3 million tickets and actually selling 3 million tickets at close to face value, and have actual bodies sitting in those seats.  That happens when you put a good product on the field.  A smart business man like Arte knows this as well.  They have $35 million coming off the books.  They could easily sign Cole and another starter and simply play with the figures until Albert comes off the books, then the following year Upton comes off the books.  At that point the only expensive player that needs extended is Ohtani.  This is the sweet spot where you can add some payroll because of what you have coming off the books over the next three years.  

We will see what happens. Again I think Cole will get close to 35 million a year annually and I just don’t think Arte will spend his entire wad on one player. 

[kevinb]

2 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

I think we disagree fundamentally on what drives Arte. 

Probably. Here’s a fun question. Do you think the only thing that drives him is winning? Do you see him ever having the highest payroll in the league? 

[Docwaukee]

23 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Probably. Here’s a fun question. Do you think the only thing that drives him is winning? Do you see him ever having the highest payroll in the league? 

I think he really wants to win but I also think he likes putting money in his pocket or keeping what he has.  I also think he sees that you don't need the highest payroll to win a championship.  

I think he's got enough of a will to win that he would consider boosting payroll for a couple years to make that more possible.  Whether that happens this off season remains to be seen.  If the team had been a little more competitive this year I think it would be a no brainer.  

It's a pretty bold move to first your manager, bench coach, and pitching coach after only one year.  So winning does drive him but the Angels will never have the highest payroll with him around.  

[Pancake Bear]

36 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

We will see what happens. Again I think Cole will get close to 35 million a year annually and I just don’t think Arte will spend his entire wad on one player. 

He'd be better off standing pat in that case. We need a top of the rotation arm. Anything less would be essentially what we have now. 

35 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Probably. Here’s a fun question. Do you think the only thing that drives him is winning? Do you see him ever having the highest payroll in the league? 

I never said that. I said I think he values winning more than you think he does. Also, you seem to be ignoring the possibility of backloading the contract. I'm not sure why since Fletcher already indicated that's the most likely scenario. EDIT: On the other question - I don't see him spending substantially more than he is at present. But I think he may add on a little bit more if we're close to the playoffs.

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

there's a lot in between and most of it has been about running a business which he will continue to do.  

Uh, okay, chief. Whatever you say.

[kevinb]

@Sean-Regan I understand backloading contracts. But he’d have to back load the contract to an insane level to get to averaging 35 mil a year which again I think Cole will get to. If the front of the contract is say 20 then the back end it’ll have to be 40 ish. I mean it’s all a waiting and guessing game right now anyway. I’m curious what Cole will actually sign for. Will the Dodgers pursue him hard as well being a local kid? Will San Diego? It’s all gonna be curious to say the least. 

[kevinb]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think he really wants to win but I also think he likes putting money in his pocket or keeping what he has.  I also think he sees that you don't need the highest payroll to win a championship.  

I think he's got enough of a will to win that he would consider boosting payroll for a couple years to make that more possible.  Whether that happens this off season remains to be seen.  If the team had been a little more competitive this year I think it would be a no brainer.  

It's a pretty bold move to first your manager, bench coach, and pitching coach after only one year.  So winning does drive him but the Angels will never have the highest payroll with him around.  

I agree I don’t think you need to spend an insane amount of money to win as credited by seeing how many teams have competed recently with all sorts of payrolls. This sport more than the other is very unpredictable. The Sox won the World Series last year pretty much had the same team this year and didn’t even make the playoffs. So really it’s all a crap shoot know one really knows. It’s captain obvious but all a team can do is get as much talent as possible on a team and hope it works out. 

I mean F*ck. The Yankees had their entire team on the DL and somehow turned it in to one of the best records in baseball. Sports is confusing. 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

Uh, okay, chief. Whatever you say.

??

He'll go as far as he can to balance the opportunity to win while still putting money in his pocket.  It's not either or.  He cares about winning.    and Money.  

[Docwaukee]

and they'll have plenty of time to decide on whether to get in on the Rendon sweeps.  My guess is that he'll be there in Jan.  If the dust settles and we haven't been able to get much on the pitching side, the sure, go after him.  

[Pancake Bear]

22 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

@Sean-Regan I understand backloading contracts. But he’d have to back load the contract to an insane level to get to averaging 35 mil a year which again I think Cole will get to. If the front of the contract is say 20 then the back end it’ll have to be 40 ish. I mean it’s all a waiting and guessing game right now anyway. I’m curious what Cole will actually sign for. Will the Dodgers pursue him hard as well being a local kid? Will San Diego? It’s all gonna be curious to say the least. 

Cole is almost certainly not getting 35. Until a few weeks ago, 30 was considered a high estimate. He will get 30 aav, certainly. Trout’s aav is only 35. The highest pitcher to date is Verlander at 33 aav (on a two year deal), followed by Greinke at 32 aav (deferrals reduce the aav). 

Could he? Maybe, but I’m doubtful. 32-33 is probably where he tops out. 224ish would be my guess. 

To me, if you skip an ace (really just Cole, and maybe Strasburg), I wouldn’t feel at all confident going into next season. Not with how this staff performed this year. At this point, grabbing two mid tier guys seems far more dangerous to me than just grabbing one ace. 

23 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

??

He'll go as far as he can to balance the opportunity to win while still putting money in his pocket.  It's not either or.  He cares about winning.    and Money.  

Then I don’t know what you’re disagreeing with. I already said that. What I was rejecting was the notion that Arte’s happy just owning a team and will only spend as proportionate to roi. I disagree with the notion that he will not spend more if he thinks we’re competitive.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Get over Grandal.... Eppy could have signed him the last 2 years and showed zero interest!... I doubt he is interested this offseason.

[totdprods]

46 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Get over Grandal.... Eppy could have signed him the last 2 years and showed zero interest!... I doubt he is interested this offseason.

Seconded. Grandal will cost a huge chunk of money and Eppler has done a solid job of finding reasonable catcher production for peanuts. We need every dime we can muster for pitching. Dropping $10m+ annually on a catcher the wrong side of 30 is far too risky.

I hope Zunino gets non-tendered. Solid defensive baseline to work with and an offensive upside that can still be realized. d’Arnaud has my eye now too.

[totdprods]

I’ll also add that Arte has caught everyone off-guard in three (four?) different offseasons in his time - the ‘04 spree, Pujols and CJ, Hamilton, and could argue the Wells trade or the first Trout extension as others too. Even in our wildest dreams, all of those came with a big degree of surprise and wow factor. It’s been awhile. I wouldn’t really rule anything out when it comes to Arte, tbh. Not that I’m hoping for or expecting anything, but it’s not unrealistic at all that he approves or does something that tips the scale in a big, big way.

I could see him eventually getting an Ilitich-esque streak in him in hopes of getting one championship before he croaks or sells. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by totdprods

[Lou]

I'm guessing Eppler didn't want to lose a top pick by signing Grandal last year. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Get over Grandal.... Eppy could have signed him the last 2 years and showed zero interest!... I doubt he is interested this offseason.

Not according to Grandal.  Grandal was a man of the people, a champion for the cause of players everywhere.  He supposedly turned down several multiple year deals because the per annum wasn't up to snuff and he owed it to future players to take the one year deal.  Also, Moustakas always wanted to go back to KC, which is why he turned down the 16 mil QO two years ago and ended up signing for 6 mil.

Yes, this is snark..  No, it's not aimed at you.

 

[tdawg87]

Grandal sounds like a c*nt.

[Blarg]

You guys are snorting the hot stove ashes again and getting all hyped up on the idea Moreno is going to blow over his imposed budget for three or more high cost players. 

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You guys are snorting the hot stove ashes again and getting all hyped up on the idea Moreno is going to blow over his imposed budget for three or more high cost players. 

It’s best you ignore it so you don’t come across like a crotchety old man.  

[Hubs]

20 hours ago, Hubs said:

Sign Cole. 24 first two years more after 

Sign Rendon. 24 first two years, more after that.

Trade Cozart, $5M, Calhoun And one of the infielders for Samardzija. $12M for 2020.

Sign Grandal. $16M per 3 years. $72M would be a huge increase in salary.

Win World Series.

 

 

15 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

This is a joke right?

What's a joke about it?

Samardizja had a good year last year. I don't want to send Rengifo, Thaiss, or Ward away for nothing, but you have to give to get and the Angels need starters.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/samarje01.shtml

 

Calhoun is valuable to a point, They're eating 1/2 of Cozart's contract, freeing up some money. Giants need hitters.

 

 

[Docwaukee]

9 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

Cole is almost certainly not getting 35. Until a few weeks ago, 30 was considered a high estimate. He will get 30 aav, certainly. Trout’s aav is only 35. The highest pitcher to date is Verlander at 33 aav (on a two year deal), followed by Greinke at 32 aav (deferrals reduce the aav). 

Could he? Maybe, but I’m doubtful. 32-33 is probably where he tops out. 224ish would be my guess. 

To me, if you skip an ace (really just Cole, and maybe Strasburg), I wouldn’t feel at all confident going into next season. Not with how this staff performed this year. At this point, grabbing two mid tier guys seems far more dangerous to me than just grabbing one ace. 

Then I don’t know what you’re disagreeing with. I already said that. What I was rejecting was the notion that Arte’s happy just owning a team and will only spend as proportionate to roi. I disagree with the notion that he will not spend more if he thinks we’re competitive.

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I disagree with that as well and think he's got a little more in the tank for when the time is right.  But it won't be some spending spree that takes the team over the cap.  Some of the numbers being thrown around are absurd.  I could see him boosting payroll by 10-15m because he wants to win but it'll still be relatively conservative.  

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I disagree with that as well and think he's got a little more in the tank for when the time is right.  But it won't be some spending spree that takes the team over the cap.  Some of the numbers being thrown around are absurd.  I could see him boosting payroll by 10-15m because he wants to win but it'll still be relatively conservative.  

Couldn't agree more. He has sat around 160-170 I think he tops out maybe at 180? 185? No way do I see him going to 200 million over night. Even with all these people saying Upton, Pujols, Simmons coming off the books. That just means more people are coming on the books. Pitching will get more expensive nothing is in a vacuum by itself. People are going to get raises, people will become free agents etc. Hell we only have one more year of Ohtani being super cheap then he starts getting paid higher and higher. 

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I disagree with that as well

[angelsnationtalk]

7 minutes ago, Hubs said:

 

What's a joke about it?

Samardizja had a good year last year. I don't want to send Rengifo, Thaiss, or Ward away for nothing, but you have to give to get and the Angels need starters.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/samarje01.shtml

 

Calhoun is valuable to a point, They're eating 1/2 of Cozart's contract, freeing up some money. Giants need hitters.

 

 

I see where you're trying to having it work and I'd love to get rid of Cozart as well but he has zero value and there's not even a guarantee that he comes back to being healthy. Plus we have to assume that the Giants would take on Calhoun's $14M option before we pick it up. I know it's a salary swap but is it worth losing a Rengifo or Thaiss for 1 year for Samardzija? Giving away Ward would be worth it but I wouldn't give anyone else. 

[Pancake Bear]

7 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Get over Grandal.... Eppy could have signed him the last 2 years and showed zero interest!... I doubt he is interested this offseason.

The Angels pursued him last offseason. Grandal just didn’t like their offer. 

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

The Angels pursued him last offseason. Grandal just didn’t like their offer. 

he also had a pick attached last year.  

[Pancake Bear]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

he also had a pick attached last year.  

Forgot that. That’s actually not insignificant. But the Angels are obviously not the only team that will matter to.