Kole’s defense

[Pancake Bear]

Disclaimer: Analyzing defense is not something I know much about. That said, I constantly hear people refer to Kole’s “gold glove level defense” and how Goodwin is a huge step down defensively. But per Fangraphs, Kole has -2 DRS this season, while Goodwin has +2. And both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference rate Kole as negative overall defensively with Goodwin slightly better. Am I missing something? Is Calhoun’s defensive prowess just reputation and a really good arm at this point?

(Both sites agree that Upton’s defense is worse. He’s at -12 DRS, iirc.)

[Jeff Fletcher]

Those same defensive metrics also don’t like Trout very much. 

They are very unreliable, as far as I’m concerned. 

[Pancake Bear]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Those same defensive metrics also don’t like Trout very much. 

They are very unreliable, as far as I’m concerned. 

I hear you. I think Kole easily passes the eye test. He is great at catching anything in range, and his arm is as good as any in the majors, IMO.

What I’m wondering about are things that I can’t measure. For instance, does Kole’s speed (or lack of it), mean he gets to less balls than the average RF? Does he take poor routes to balls? Is he positioned badly, leading to more balls falling in than average? I don’t have that data and don’t know how to read it if it is available,  

i guess my initial question was: Is there something most fans miss or can’t see that demonstrate he’s no longer the above average RF we’ve traditionally believed him to be, or is there something flawed in the way that data is measured (e.g. Fletcher at 2B gets to more OF balls in RF which makes Kole look worse by the numbers because time average RF would catch those fly balls?)

 

 

[tdawg87]

I think in this case we're also looking at a sample size issue. Goodwin has only played 132 innings in RF this year, or roughly 15 games.

[Dick B Back]

30 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

I hear you. I think Kole easily passes the eye test. He is great at catching anything in range, and his arm is as good as any in the majors, IMO.

What I’m wondering about are things that I can’t measure. For instance, does Kole’s speed (or lack of it), mean he gets to less balls than the average RF? Does he take poor routes to balls? Is he positioned badly, leading to more balls falling in than average? I don’t have that data and don’t know how to read it if it is available,  

i guess my initial question was: Is there something most fans miss or can’t see that demonstrate he’s no longer the above average RF we’ve traditionally believed him to be, or is there something flawed in the way that data is measured (e.g. Fletcher at 2B gets to more OF balls in RF which makes Kole look worse by the numbers because time average RF would catch those fly balls?)

 

 

There can be no flaws in data. Data rules.

[tdawg87]

Do you guys pronounce it data or data

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Do you guys pronounce it data or data

data 

[Pancake Bear]

6 minutes ago, Lou said:

data 

[tdawg87]

20 minutes ago, Lou said:

data 

Dumbass. It's data.

[ten ocho recon scout]

46 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Do you guys pronounce it data or data

 

[Mark PT]

2 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

Disclaimer: Analyzing defense is not something I know much about. That said, I constantly hear people refer to Kole’s “gold glove level defense” and how Goodwin is a huge step down defensively. But per Fangraphs, Kole has -2 DRS this season, while Goodwin has +2. And both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference rate Kole as negative overall defensively with Goodwin slightly better. Am I missing something? Is Calhoun’s defensive prowess just reputation and a really good arm at this point?

(Both sites agree that Upton’s defense is worse. He’s at -12 DRS, iirc.)

These matrices dont account for good effort on balls missed, or times he held runners from advancing, or balls he got to that others cant. Its only if the play was complete or not.