Three aces in 2020

[Dtwncbad]

How about:

1). Have some nuts to trade SOME quality prospect capital (anything but Adell) to land Syndergaard

2). Sign Cole

3). Ohtani back on the mound

How good does this team look next year if the rotation is Syndergaard, Cole, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning?

I think the first criticism of this post will be people saying it is impossible to land Syndergaard without giving up Adell.  That might be true.  But I am not 100% convinced it is true.

GMs today are just not willing to give up the truly elite prospects anymore.  So we may see Syndergaard going for a quantity of second tier prospects rather than a deal centered around an elite prospect.

 

[Stradling]

I have no idea what it will take to get Syndergaard but their asking price from Minnesota was their top two prospects, both are considered top 20 in baseball. Obviously I don’t think it will cost that much but I’m guessing it will cost more than what we can come up with if we don’t include Adell. Unless They will take Simmons.  

[Blarg]

 

13 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

1). Have some nuts to trade SOME quality prospect capital (anything but Adell) to land Syndergaard

How about you convince the Mets that a package that didn't include Adell would be sufficient.

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

How about:

1). Have some nuts to trade SOME quality prospect capital (anything but Adell) to land Syndergaard
2). Sign Cole
3). Ohtani back on the mound

How good does this team look next year if the rotation is Syndergaard, Cole, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning?

I think the first criticism of this post will be people saying it is impossible to land Syndergaard without giving up Adell.  That might be true.  But I am not 100% convinced it is true.

GMs today are just not willing to give up the truly elite prospects anymore.  
Not entirely true. See Sanchez, Moncada, Eloy, Cease, Kopech...

So we may see Syndergaard going for a quantity of second tier prospects rather than a deal centered around an elite prospect.

Bingo. The Mets are asking for a Top 30 prospect , and they might get it. 
San Diego could use a starter. They have two Top 30 prospects.
Houston needs a SP - they have two Top 30 prospects.
Minnesota could use a starter - almost their entire rotation hits FA at years end - and they have two Top 30 prospects.
The White Sox have three Top 30 prospects and are trying to bring themselves into contention. 
The Rays have a need and also have two Top 30 prospects. 

The Angels have a need - and only one of Top 30 prospects in Adell - and no others in the Top 100.

All of those other teams do. Someone will pay something close to what the Mets want. 

That's why I think it becomes nearly impossible to get Syndergaard without Adell, and if Adell is part of the talks, attention should turn towards "Well, who else can we get then?", leading me to think about Wheeler and/or Lugo, and leveraging another big talent like Simmons that could be expendable with Fletcher/Rengifo, not to mention the money moving him would free up. Makes it easier to keep Calhoun to replace Adell until Marsh is ready, and still frees up the money for a SP in the offseason. Sign Cole = Cole, Syndergaard, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, or re-sign Wheeler and another decent bat (Grandal) or stick with Syndergaard and the pitching we have (for the most part) and sign Rendon to offset loss of Simmons.

Edited July 29, 2019 by totdprods

[Blarg]

I hope if the Angels do win him in trade that this was his anomally season because his ERA+ is pretty aweful for a guy you all want as the top of the rotation pitcher. 

[Angel Oracle]

4 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I hope if the Angels do win him in trade that this was his anomally season because his ERA+ is pretty aweful for a guy you all want as the top of the rotation pitcher. 

And his WHIP is nothing to write home about since 2018 (1.20+).

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

A few articles I've seen about Syndergaard talk about how a change of scenery could be good for him similar to Cole getting traded by Pitt.  I'm sure the ongoing discussions and questions from reporters about him possibly being moved aren't helping.  He's shown he has the stuff to be an ace, turns 27 this year and is under club control through 2021.  There's definitely some risk but if you can get him without giving up Adell and he pitches to his potential he'd be a great add.

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I hope if the Angels do win him in trade that this was his anomally season because his ERA+ is pretty aweful for a guy you all want as the top of the rotation pitcher. 

Yeah - he's arguably not worth the gamble, and if he doesn't cost Adell, he'd cost a boatload of non-Adell guys - so many guysin fact, that I'd almost rather look back at Adell and see what else could come from NYM. 

Putting all of Adell's value into a trade for Syndergaard would be dumb. Way too risky. If they insist on Adell, try and bring Wheeler, Lugo, Stroman, Matz, Nimmo, or Diaz into talks too. If Adell has to be included and the Angels are open to it for some reason, at least try and build the package to where it's fronted by Adell and supplemented with lesser pieces, and you get another player or two back with significant upside and control, should Syndergaard never bring that.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

A few articles I've seen about Syndergaard talk about how a change of scenery could be good for him similar to Cole getting traded by Pitt.  He's shown he has the stuff to be an ace, turns 27 this year and is under club control through 2021.  There's definitely some risk but if you can get him without giving up Adell and he pitches to his potential he would be a huge add for the franchise.

For this reason, I'm sure Houston is watching Syndergaard very closely. They could blow any Angels package that doesn't involve Adell out of the water.

[Dtwncbad]

24 minutes ago, Blarg said:

 

How about you convince the Mets that a package that didn't include Adell would be sufficient.

 

[floplag]

I am as disappointed as anyone at our inaction to date, but it isnt about nuts.  The plan for 19 went to shit.  The mercs bombed, many of the kids didnt take steps forwards, were left with very little that has real trade value right now.  Any trade that doesnt involve Adell, isnt going to get Thor unless its almost every other viable prospect we have.    WE would almost have to offer 2-5, something im not sure we can afford to do.
This season hurt the plan, badly, plain and simple. 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

I am as disappointed as anyone at our inaction to date, but it isnt about nuts.  The plan for 19 went to shit.  The mercs bombed, many of the kids didnt take steps forwards, were left with very little that has real trade value right now.  Any trade that doesnt involve Adell, isnt going to get Thor unless its almost every other viable prospect we have.    WE would almost have to offer 2-5, something im not sure we can afford to do.
This season hurt the plan, badly, plain and simple. 

I understand what you are saying but unless prospects 2-5 can be dominant pitchers, then they will be effectively useless in solving the specific problem the Angels actual have, the one that will keep them from winning.

[fan_since79]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I have no idea what it will take to get Syndergaard but their asking price from Minnesota was their top two prospects, both are considered top 20 in baseball. Obviously I don’t think it will cost that much but I’m guessing it will cost more than what we can come up with if we don’t include Adell. Unless They will take Simmons.  

We could part with Simmons for a starter like Syndergaard. We have more than enough infield pieces. I'm thinking Fletcher could do a good job at SS.

[floplag]

53 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I understand what you are saying but unless prospects 2-5 can be dominant pitchers, then they will be effectively useless in solving the specific problem the Angels actual have, the one that will keep them from winning.

Our current 2-5 on the mlb pipeline site are Marsh, Adams, Wilson, and Jackson.  I suspect teams looking for more ML ready guys would be asking for names like Thaiss, Suarez, Sandoval or maybe some of the youth from the ML roster like Rengifo or Canning.
I for one am not sure we could adsorb losing 3 or 4 of those guys and still fill other problems.

[floplag]

28 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

We could part with Simmons for a starter like Syndergaard. We have more than enough infield pieces. I'm thinking Fletcher could do a good job at SS.

Feels a bit like weakening one area to strengthen another, but its possible sure

[fan_since79]

I wouldn't part with Rengifo, think he'll be a star. Love his game.

That's just me though. GM's have to make hard decisions. We desperately need at least two reliable starters, and now.

[notherhalo]

The only hope for getting Syndergaard would be that the Mets must be the dumbest team in baseball, and for that reason alone, all bets are off

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

Feels a bit like weakening one area to strengthen another, but its possible sure

Obviously, with La Stella currently out, there's room for both Fletcher and Rengifo to play nearly every day but...

Fletcher is, offensively, about as damn close to an identical replacement for Simmons' as one could hope for, and he's still good defensively. Rengifo as well. 
Couple that with the $15m you save next year and the pitching return you get? It doesn't have to be that much of a weakening for 2020. 

[floplag]

17 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Obviously, with La Stella currently out, there's room for both Fletcher and Rengifo to play nearly every day but...

Fletcher is, offensively, about as damn close to an identical replacement for Simmons' as one could hope for, and he's still good defensively. Rengifo as well. 
Couple that with the $15m you save next year and the pitching return you get? It doesn't have to be that much of a weakening for 2020. 

I get where youre going with it . but there is little question that while Feltcher or Rengifo are good defensively, Simmons is perhaps the best SS in the game today.
If you could swing it straight up, maybe its worth it, but i kinda doubt you could.

[NJHalo]

1 hour ago, fan_since79 said:

We could part with Simmons for a starter like Syndergaard. We have more than enough infield pieces. I'm thinking Fletcher could do a good job at SS.

I was thinking about this one yesterday, although I think the Angels need to add a little. How about Marsh since he is blocked, and the Mets two biggest needs are SS and CF? 

[fan_since79]

15 minutes ago, NJHalo said:

I was thinking about this one yesterday, although I think the Angels need to add a little. How about Marsh since he is blocked, and the Mets two biggest needs are SS and CF? 

That's a fair deal and fits the needs of both teams.

[totdprods]

17 minutes ago, NJHalo said:

I was thinking about this one yesterday, although I think the Angels need to add a little. How about Marsh since he is blocked, and the Mets two biggest needs are SS and CF? 

My bet would be that it still takes a SP prospect(s) as well, but could come into play.

[jgimondo]

2 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

We could part with Simmons for a starter like Syndergaard. We have more than enough infield pieces. I'm thinking Fletcher could do a good job at SS.

Fletcher is no where near Simmons quality of play in the field.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, jgimondo said:

Fletcher is no where near Simmons quality of play in the field.

You’re right. But he isn’t terrible, nor about to hit his 30s. Also $15m cheaper, and that’s not counting whatever value is brought back in a trade.

No one doubts that Simmons’ defense is generational, but it also comes with a shelf-life and many millions more dollars. 

[NJHalo]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

You’re right. But he isn’t terrible, nor about to hit his 30s. Also $15m cheaper, and that’s not counting whatever value is brought back in a trade.

No one doubts that Simmons’ defense is generational, but it also comes with a shelf-life and many millions more dollars. 

Totally agree. The biggest part is the $15 million savings that can be used towards Cole.