Is this the worst the rotation has ever been?

[Inside Pitch]

11 hours ago, disarcina said:

Ken Hill - we signed him as FA or got him from the Cardinals? 

anyway, he was a very good pitcher at one point, I think he had a half season of decent starts for us and then got hurt.

never reached his potential of what we expected when we signed him/ got him.

It was a trade with Texas for the stretch run then re-signed.   

Hill had off-season elbow surgery between the 97 and 98 seasons (bone chips and structural loose bodies), opened up 1998 by going 6-1 averaging more than 100 pitches a game because who cares if the guy was a few months removed from elbow surgery.   In game 9 he got rocked, leaves after less than 2 innings having thrown 5-6 MPH slower than usual.  Game 10 Collins leaves him in for 8+ innings and 148 pitches, famously saying that he felt he could go a little longer after only throwing 60 pitches his last time out.

Hill's next four starts he pitches to a 8.50 ERA with no signs of his usual fastball and his forkball gone..   On Jun 10 after allowing 6 runs he is diagnosed with an elbow injury (shocker).  Dude was never the same.   The FB was effectively gone   But Terry Collins had an important game to win in early May, and his pitcher had extra rest... 

This was the sort of red-ass stupidity that was commonplace in those late 90s Angels teams...    There were more arms wrecked between HiA on up to MLB in those years than at any point in Angels history...  not guys who simply fell to injury, I'm talking about guys being pushed to such ridiculous workloads they broke.

[Angel Oracle]

5 hours ago, Randy Gradishar said:

I actually miss Paul Byrd.

Totally stymied the ChiSox in the 2005 ALCS 

[Angel Oracle]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It was a trade with Texas for the stretch run then re-signed.   

Hill had off-season elbow surgery between the 97 and 98 seasons (bone chips and structural loose bodies), opened up 1998 by going 6-1 averaging more than 100 pitches a game because who cares if the guy was a few months removed from elbow surgery.   In game 9 he got rocked, leaves after less than 2 innings having thrown 5-6 MPH slower than usual.  Game 10 Collins leaves him in for 8+ innings and 148 pitches, famously saying that he felt he could go a little longer after only throwing 60 pitches his last time out.

Hill's next four starts he pitches to a 8.50 ERA with no signs of his usual fastball and his forkball gone..   On Jun 10 after allowing 6 runs he is diagnosed with an elbow injury (shocker).  Dude was never the same.   The FB was effectively gone   But Terry Collins had an important game to win in early May, and his pitcher had extra rest... 

This was the sort of red-ass stupidity that was commonplace in those late 90s Angels teams...    There were more arms wrecked between HiA on up to MLB in those years than at any point in Angels history...  not guys who simply fell to injury, I'm talking about guys being pushed to such ridiculous workloads they broke.

Jason Dickson and quite a few of the Mets starters a few years back approve of this post.

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Pat Rapp says hello

So does Ismeal Valdes.

[zenmaster]

This year is pretty bad. When we have repeatedly send guys out there that have a 7+ era to start or consider guys in AAA who have a 7+, it means our rotation is a bit lacking. 

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Randy Gradishar said:

I actually miss Paul Byrd.

Paul Byrd would undeniably be our number 1.  As would Washburn, Ortiz and Bottenfield. 

[disarcina]

17 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

It was a trade with Texas for the stretch run then re-signed.   

Hill had off-season elbow surgery between the 97 and 98 seasons (bone chips and structural loose bodies), opened up 1998 by going 6-1 averaging more than 100 pitches a game because who cares if the guy was a few months removed from elbow surgery.   In game 9 he got rocked, leaves after less than 2 innings having thrown 5-6 MPH slower than usual.  Game 10 Collins leaves him in for 8+ innings and 148 pitches, famously saying that he felt he could go a little longer after only throwing 60 pitches his last time out.

Hill's next four starts he pitches to a 8.50 ERA with no signs of his usual fastball and his forkball gone..   On Jun 10 after allowing 6 runs he is diagnosed with an elbow injury (shocker).  Dude was never the same.   The FB was effectively gone   But Terry Collins had an important game to win in early May, and his pitcher had extra rest... 

This was the sort of red-ass stupidity that was commonplace in those late 90s Angels teams...    There were more arms wrecked between HiA on up to MLB in those years than at any point in Angels history...  not guys who simply fell to injury, I'm talking about guys being pushed to such ridiculous workloads they broke.

Inside Pitch- thanks for the info/ history lesson.  Hill was once a top quality pitcher - as your post points out. He got over-used by Terry Collins (who I originally liked as manager of the Halos but his tenure ended being one of the worst years of the Halos franchise. What a disaster. And then he and Mo Vaughn fought from day one of Vaughn arriving in Anaheim - what a terrible time that all was),  

Managers like Collins and Lasorda used to over-work the pitchers -- but they came up in the old school ways when Complete Games were actually a stat.  Now teams have fewer complete games in a decade than a single pitcher (guys like Drysdale and Gibson, Steve Carlton) had in one season.

 

\

[gurn67]

Of course, it can go the other way as well. For example, in 1991, when the Angels had three pitchers finish in the top 6 in the Cy Young balloting (Abbott, Harvey & Langston) and only finished 81-81 because they had the 2nd worst offense in the AL. They also had Finley, who went 18-9 & Mark Eichhorn was a dominant set up man with a 1.98 ERA. Basically, they had three number one starters, and the game was pretty much over if they had a lead after 7. The rest of the pitchers went 21-46 and the offense was full of guys who either got old (Parker, Parrish, Schofield) or didn't want to be here (Gaetti).

[GrittyVeterans]

It’s actually better now than it was at the start of the season. 

Getting Harvey and Cahill our of there automatically improves things a ton

[yk9001]

On 7/23/2019 at 5:23 PM, GalericX said:

Yesssss... When kill Hill is your ACE, the staff is seriously shit.  Sorry guys, but that time was worse than this.

The Ken Hill- Tim Belcher years were the WORST

[yk9001]

On 7/24/2019 at 4:41 AM, happybat4 said:

2000 has to be the worst.

Team Pitching

 

• League Register
•  
• Share & more
  • Modify & Share Table
  • Embed this Table
  • Get as Excel Workbook (experimental)
  • Get table as CSV (for Excel)
  • Strip Mobile Formatting
  • Copy Link to Table to Clipboard
  • About Sharing Tools
  • Video: SR Sharing Tools & How-to
  • Video: Stats Table Tips & Tricks
• Hide non-qualifiers for rate stats
• Glossary

Rk	Pos	Name	Age	W	L	W-L%	ERA	G	GS	GF	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	BK	WP	BF	ERA+	FIP	WHIP	H9	HR9	BB9	SO9	SO/W
1	SP	Scott Schoeneweis*	26	7	10	.412	5.45	27	27	0	1	1	0	170.0	183	112	103	21	67	2	78	6	3	4	742	92	5.11	1.471	9.7	1.1	3.5	4.1	1.16
2	SP	Kent Bottenfield	31	7	8	.467	5.71	21	21	0	0	0	0	127.2	144	82	81	25	56	4	75	3	0	1	571	88	5.89	1.567	10.2	1.8	3.9	5.3	1.34
3	SP	Ramon Ortiz	27	8	6	.571	5.09	18	18	0	2	0	0	111.1	96	69	63	18	55	0	73	2	4	7	472	99	5.46	1.356	7.8	1.5	4.4	5.9	1.33
4	SP	Brian Cooper	25	4	8	.333	5.90	15	15	0	1	1	0	87.0	105	66	57	18	35	1	36	2	0	1	396	85	6.27	1.609	10.9	1.9	3.6	3.7	1.03
5	SP	Jarrod Washburn*	25	7	2	.778	3.74	14	14	0	0	0	0	84.1	64	38	35	16	37	0	49	1	0	1	340	135	5.79	1.198	6.8	1.7	3.9	5.2	1.32
6	SP	Ken Hill	34	5	7	.417	6.52	16	16	0	0	0	0	78.2	102	59	57	16	53	1	50	2	0	6	380	77	6.60	1.970	11.7	1.8	6.1	5.7	0.9

[happybat4]

I remember thinking Ramon Ortiz would be a dominant player. Than it turns out he was 3 years older than he said he was a d it was no surprise he was dominant in the minors.