Tommy La Stella, David Fletcher & Brian Goodwin appreciation thread.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Kody Mac said:

I had the pleasure of meeting him when he was with the Marlins, he was a great guy.

If I can get deep for a moment, sometimes it really frustrates me when I hear fans call a player garbage or say he sucks or doesn’t care or any of that stuff, since I have talked to these guys and watched them and I know they are giving it all they have and when they fail, they hate it. The major leagues are hard and the difference between fans loving you and hating you is often pretty small. 

Anyway, carry on...

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

If that's the route you want to take -- get back to me when you come to the realization that the game is changing and the team is operating differently than in the past.  While I agree it would be nice if he could consistently work into the 6th inning it's possible the plan may have always been to turn him into a 5 inning pitcher.   

They may be putting a lot more value into 150 innings of 110 ERA+ ball than fans do.

Or he's a stopgap until they develop/sign someone better.

Great point. Once stat nerds so to speak took over, the changes started. But the last 5 years or so, its been turned upside down. 

Relief pitchers starting games. Closers becoming a thing of the past. Defensive shifts.

Adam dunn used to catch a ton of crap. Now hes a poster boy for what teams want.

[T.G.]

41 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If I can get deep for a moment, sometimes it really frustrates me when I hear fans call a player garbage or say he sucks or doesn’t care or any of that stuff, since I have talked to these guys and watched them and I know they are giving it all they have and when they fail, they hate it. The major leagues are hard and the difference between fans loving you and hating you is often pretty small. 

Anyway, carry on...

I believe the overwhelming majority of players are "giving it their all" - but I do not believe that is the case with every single player.  I don't think that's realistic. 

I get frustrated with some players - but there are only a handful of guys I can honestly say that I "hated."  AJ Pierzynski is one.  In fact, I have always said that if he ever has a kid who makes it to the major leagues, I'll boo him too.  Jose Guillen is another. 

I don't boo anyone who plays for the Angels.  I don't hate any of the players.  I will question their effort in certain situations, but recognize they're all basically trying to compete and win.  Bour just ticks me off.  He may be a nice guy - but I don't get to see that as a fan.  What I see is a guy who continually makes mistakes in various aspects of the game.  They're basically "stupid" mistakes for lack of a better word.  Those kinds of mistakes when they happen as often as they do with one player - makes me question where their head is at. That's what fans do... That doesn't make him a terrible guy - it just makes him a lousy baseball player or at least one that I find hard to cheer for.  Some guys give you the impression that they would do anything to stay in the big leagues.  They compete on every single play.  They don't give in and they don't give up.  When Bour does things like slide into second base - get called safe by the umpire and then walk off the bag and get tagged out - it ticks me off.  It's a perfectly legitimate reaction for a fan. 

Erick Aybar used to make me crazy sometimes.  He'd do things that made me question his baseball IQ - but I always thought he was a great competitor.  He was kind of goofy and intense at the same time.  I don't get that from Bour.

I'm still getting to know some of these guys... La Stella, Bour, Goodwin.  I'm going to form opinions about all of them based on what I see them do on the field.  So far, Bour isn't much fun to watch.   I don't hate the guy - but I'm just not a fan just yet either.

[GrittyVeterans]

Bour is not going to be liked until balls start going over the fence. He's not particularly good at anything on the baseball diamond other than taking a walk and hitting home runs.

So yeah, people are going to not like him when he's slumping

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Bour is not going to be liked until balls start going over the fence. He's not particularly good at anything on the baseball diamond other than taking a walk and hitting home runs.

So yeah, people are going to not like him when he's slumping

Case in point he was on base 3 times last night and no one noticed or mentioned it. 

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Case in point he was on base 3 times last night and no one noticed or mentioned it. 

That's because most people consider the whole body of work.  Winning over a fan base doesn't happen with one "good" game.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, True Grich said:

That's because most people consider the whole body of work.  Winning over a fan base doesn't happen with one "good" game.

 If there’s one thing this place is incapable of it’s considering the whole body of work.   

[Broad Street]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If I can get deep for a moment, sometimes it really frustrates me when I hear fans call a player garbage or say he sucks or doesn’t care or any of that stuff, since I have talked to these guys and watched them and I know they are giving it all they have and when they fail, they hate it. The major leagues are hard and the difference between fans loving you and hating you is often pretty small. 

Anyway, carry on...

I've been guilty of this for sure, and I think that article by Rich Hill talking about his son really puts things into perspective for people. All fans should read it and remember that they're people too.

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If I can get deep for a moment, sometimes it really frustrates me when I hear fans call a player garbage or say he sucks or doesn’t care or any of that stuff, since I have talked to these guys and watched them and I know they are giving it all they have and when they fail, they hate it. The major leagues are hard and the difference between fans loving you and hating you is often pretty small. 

Anyway, carry on...

Agreed. As someone whos friends with guys who have been very good, as well as guys who werent really, Ive seen the human side of them. Some of the good players are hard to pull for... and some of the bad players you really pull for.

[Billy_Ball]

Brian Goodwin in studio on The Jim Rome Show yesterday

 

 

[SoCalSportsFan]

Nice to see Philly Fuming with Tommy Boy having better stats than Bryce!

[John Taylor]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:10 PM, Jeff Fletcher said:

If I can get deep for a moment, sometimes it really frustrates me when I hear fans call a player garbage or say he sucks or doesn’t care or any of that stuff, since I have talked to these guys and watched them and I know they are giving it all they have and when they fail, they hate it. The major leagues are hard and the difference between fans loving you and hating you is often pretty small. 

Anyway, carry on...

Well said Jeff. I enjoy that you give us that inside perspective from the clubhouse.

With that being said I've been ragging on Bour and Cody Allen most of the season, and I totally gave La Stella shit at the beginning of the season (Which I was way wrong on that one). Do I feel that Bour really cares about his production and how his teammates view him, and wants to win? Absolutely I do. Will I stop giving him crap for being a pretty bad player this season because he is a good guy who works hard? Probably not, but at least I'm being honest about it.

On the flip-side Calhoun hasn't been all that good for a few seasons now yet he is still one of my favorite players, and a rarely give him any crap, but I feel like Calhoun gives 100 percent every-time he is up at the plate or in the field, I just don't get that sense from Bour. Maybe it's just the difference in body language similar to Peyton Manning vs Eli Manning.

[totdprods]

56 minutes ago, SoCalSportsFan said:

Nice to see Philly Fuming with Tommy Boy having better stats than Bryce!

Not to mention the $328,650,000 difference in salary.

[Angel Oracle]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:04 PM, True Grich said:

I believe the overwhelming majority of players are "giving it their all" - but I do not believe that is the case with every single player.  I don't think that's realistic. 

I get frustrated with some players - but there are only a handful of guys I can honestly say that I "hated."  AJ Pierzynski is one.  In fact, I have always said that if he ever has a kid who makes it to the major leagues, I'll boo him too.  Jose Guillen is another. 

I don't boo anyone who plays for the Angels.  I don't hate any of the players.  I will question their effort in certain situations, but recognize they're all basically trying to compete and win.  Bour just ticks me off.  He may be a nice guy - but I don't get to see that as a fan.  What I see is a guy who continually makes mistakes in various aspects of the game.  They're basically "stupid" mistakes for lack of a better word.  Those kinds of mistakes when they happen as often as they do with one player - makes me question where their head is at. That's what fans do... That doesn't make him a terrible guy - it just makes him a lousy baseball player or at least one that I find hard to cheer for.  Some guys give you the impression that they would do anything to stay in the big leagues.  They compete on every single play.  They don't give in and they don't give up.  When Bour does things like slide into second base - get called safe by the umpire and then walk off the bag and get tagged out - it ticks me off.  It's a perfectly legitimate reaction for a fan. 

Erick Aybar used to make me crazy sometimes.  He'd do things that made me question his baseball IQ - but I always thought he was a great competitor.  He was kind of goofy and intense at the same time.  I don't get that from Bour.

I'm still getting to know some of these guys... La Stella, Bour, Goodwin.  I'm going to form opinions about all of them based on what I see them do on the field.  So far, Bour isn't much fun to watch.   I don't hate the guy - but I'm just not a fan just yet either.

The Aybar dance was the perfect example.   It was goofy, but it was from total frustration from the ump not calling the runner out on the pickoff try to 2B.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The Aybar dance was the perfect example.   It was goofy, but it was from total frustration from the ump not calling the runner out on the pickoff try to 2B.

That guy was so entertaining. Quietly crept into being one of my favorite all-time Angels by the end of his time here.

[Jeff Fletcher]

37 minutes ago, John Taylor said:

Well said Jeff. I enjoy that you give us that inside perspective from the clubhouse.

With that being said I've been ragging on Bour and Cody Allen most of the season, and I totally gave La Stella shit at the beginning of the season (Which I was way wrong on that one). Do I feel that Bour really cares about his production and how his teammates view him, and wants to win? Absolutely I do. Will I stop giving him crap for being a pretty bad player this season because he is a good guy who works hard? Probably not, but at least I'm being honest about it.

On the flip-side Calhoun hasn't been all that good for a few seasons now yet he is still one of my favorite players, and a rarely give him any crap, but I feel like Calhoun gives 100 percent every-time he is up at the plate or in the field, I just don't get that sense from Bour. Maybe it's just the difference in body language similar to Peyton Manning vs Eli Manning.

I hear you. To me it’s the difference between

”This guy stinks right now and shouldn’t play” and “this guy is garbage.”

[Blarg]

On 5/3/2019 at 2:44 AM, Billy_Ball said:

Brian Goodwin in studio on The Jim Rome Show yesterday

 

 

Who the hell is he looking at? It's weird.

[PattyD22]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:04 PM, True Grich said:

I believe the overwhelming majority of players are "giving it their all" - but I do not believe that is the case with every single player.  I don't think that's realistic. 

I get frustrated with some players - but there are only a handful of guys I can honestly say that I "hated."  AJ Pierzynski is one.  In fact, I have always said that if he ever has a kid who makes it to the major leagues, I'll boo him too.  Jose Guillen is another. 

I don't boo anyone who plays for the Angels.  I don't hate any of the players.  I will question their effort in certain situations, but recognize they're all basically trying to compete and win.  Bour just ticks me off.  He may be a nice guy - but I don't get to see that as a fan.  What I see is a guy who continually makes mistakes in various aspects of the game.  They're basically "stupid" mistakes for lack of a better word.  Those kinds of mistakes when they happen as often as they do with one player - makes me question where their head is at. That's what fans do... That doesn't make him a terrible guy - it just makes him a lousy baseball player or at least one that I find hard to cheer for.  Some guys give you the impression that they would do anything to stay in the big leagues.  They compete on every single play.  They don't give in and they don't give up.  When Bour does things like slide into second base - get called safe by the umpire and then walk off the bag and get tagged out - it ticks me off.  It's a perfectly legitimate reaction for a fan. 

Erick Aybar used to make me crazy sometimes.  He'd do things that made me question his baseball IQ - but I always thought he was a great competitor.  He was kind of goofy and intense at the same time.  I don't get that from Bour.

I'm still getting to know some of these guys... La Stella, Bour, Goodwin.  I'm going to form opinions about all of them based on what I see them do on the field.  So far, Bour isn't much fun to watch.   I don't hate the guy - but I'm just not a fan just yet either.

True Grich--I don't want this post to get buried because this is a really good post.  It sums up my feelings pretty well (especially the opinions of Pierzynski, Guillen and Aybar).  A fan can be critical of a player who is "scuffling" as Scioscia used to say, but it's another thing to say someone "hates" a player like we used to with Pierzynski.  

Baseball is a game that we get to see a players sample size for roughly 162 games, which is about 6 days a week.  Unlike football, by the next Sunday the RB who fumbled may have already left your memory bank, where a baseball player is put on the stage almost every night and it's a little harder to forget.  A guy like Bour, who I'm pretty critical of also, needs to show me a little more.  More offense and less mental gaffes.  When he starts correcting these, maybe we won't be so critical of the guy.....nice guy or not.

[Lou]

I hate Cam 

[Tank]

On 5/2/2019 at 7:40 AM, eligrba said:

Should we look at whether he runs after hitting a ball?

Should we look at whether he waits to be called out before abandoning a base?

I think the issue with Bour is not his average, it is with his mental acuity.

i read that in a dr. seuss meter.

[Angel Oracle]

6 minutes ago, Tank said:

i read that in a dr. seuss meter.

Bour has enough girth, that if he has kids, they can always Hop on Pop.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 4/23/2019 at 6:50 AM, totdprods said:

I don't think any of us expect a .900+ OPS from him, but if he settles around .750, we'd all be quite happy, especially if he takes playing time from Kole once Upton returns. 

Brian Goodwin 0.4 WAR

Kole Calhoun  1.1 WAR

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Brian Goodwin 0.4 WAR

Kole Calhoun  1.1 WAR

To be fair, at the time, Kole was hitting .179/.274/.369/.643, and a future timeshare didn't seem too far-fetched if Kole didn't turn things around. Thankfully he did.

[T.G.]

For those of you who are mathematically challenged... the "collection" is all of ONE.

[Chuck]

On 5/16/2019 at 10:01 AM, True Grich said:

For those of you who are mathematically challenged... the "collection" is all of ONE.