How overrated is Bryce Harper?

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I don't understand why you are even bringing up WAR for Bryce Harper.  I really don't.  My opinion is all these formulas for compensation based on WAR are only functional at all for the non-star players, where an agent can dig into arguing why his 1.6 WAR client should he paid like some other 1.6 WAR player.

Since we absolutely know Harper is worth more than his WAR because he is an absolute superstar, what is the point?

Are you paying him ONLY for his WAR over 162 games or is part of the analysis his stardom and his game changing, elite level power that could carry a team on his back in a playoff series?

Does Harper get massive amounts of attention?  Yes.  And all the attention featuring the Angel Jersey and logo. . .

This is like saying don't pay Christopher Walken $15m to be in your movie because he only has 30 lines, and most actors that deliver 30 lines normally get paid $2m.

Guess who is featured in the trailer marketing the movie?

 

agree 10000000%. Not only are you putting a young player who has great potential on your team, you're putting a star in Anaheim for your marketing needs! 

[Taylor]

Harper has no one to blame but himself (and possibly Boras) for not being signed yet.

[Lou]

the Christopher Walken comparison is the worst in AW history. 

[yk9001]

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

agree 10000000%. Not only are you putting a young player who has great potential on your team, you're putting a star in Anaheim for your marketing needs! 

There are already two stars in Anaheim.

They move the needle practically none at all.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, yk9001 said:

I just watched it again five minutes ago.

I am willing to say that Will Farrell is the best Saturday Night Live player of all time.  Better than the superstars of 40 plus years ago.  Better than Eddie Murphy.

Lorne Michaels should have signed him to a 10 year contract.

Are you nuts? Do you see how fat he is in that skit? We aren't talking Chris Farley fat here, which was funny because he was so fat they couldn't fit him and another cast member into a close up. We are talking just out of shape Angelswin Softball fat. Not funny, kinda pathetic. He was not in the best shape of his life, worse than Pujols, you can't bankroll that high risk. 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

agree 10000000%. Not only are you putting a young player who has great potential on your team, you're putting a star in Anaheim for your marketing needs! 

Players with great potential are rookies, not a guy with 7 years in the majors. That's a veteran and he is what his accumulated stats say he is. 

The Angels have Mike Trout and Shoie Ohtani for marketing needs. Bryce doesn't fill any gap there. 

[angelsnationtalk]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

Players with great potential are rookies, not a guy with 7 years in the majors. That's a veteran and he is what his accumulated stats say he is. 

The Angels have Mike Trout and Shoie Ohtani for marketing needs. Bryce doesn't fill any gap there. 

Sure he does. East coast attention, sales and marketing opportunities absolutely follows. He’s entering his prime. So absolutely he has potential for good years.

[Blarg]

East coast pays attention to the East coast. 

[yk9001]

The Angels are paying three 'stars'.  The one they are paying star money to, Pujols; Trout, the best player in baseball; and Ohtani, who is a likeable baseball freak doing things that haven't been done since Babe Ruth.

 

It doesn't matter.  The Angels FSW ratings are always in the lowest quartile in the majors.  Sunday night baseball loathes to put the Angels on.  The Angels were 19th in baseball in road attendance.

 

The only thing that moves the needle is winning championships.  Star power doesn't mean jack squat.

[Dtwncbad]

Nobody tunes in to see Pujols.

Nobody really knows Ohtani yet (he has not made the jump to be well known to second tier or third tier fans).

And while there is no question Trout is the best player in baseball, his personal demeanor puts a ceiling on his overall national appeal.

You can say star power doesn't mean jack squat but I don't think that is the fair conclusion.

Bryce Harper is not nearly as good a baseball player as Mike Trout.  But I am willing to acknowledge that nationally more people would be motivated to pay attention to a game with Harper than with Trout. .  And that is because tens of millions of sports fans do not follow the skill set as much as they follow the shiny object.

[Jay]

Prime-Time TV Ratings For Each Team At The MLB All-Star Break

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2018/07/19/prime-time-tv-ratings-for-each-team-at-the-mlb-all-star-break/

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I don't think adding more "star power" to the Angels would make a difference but if they won more games it might help.

 

[yk9001]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Nobody tunes in to see Pujols.

Absolutely. He's being paid like they are going to tune in.

Which is the problem when you sign ten year contracts.

 

Pujols had won multiple MVPs, won a World Series, and was a sure fire HOFer. Yet his star status in LA has never been above the 3rd guy off the bench on the Lakers in any given year.  And we still have three more years.

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Absolutely. He's being paid like they are going to tune in.

Which is the problem when you give ten year contracts to 32-year olds who are probably actually 35.

 

Pujols had won multiple MVPs, won a World Series, and was a sure fire HOFer. Yet his star status in LA has never been above the 3rd guy off the bench on the Lakers in any given year.  And we still have three more years.

Fixed.

Albert was (allegedly) 32 in the first year of his contract. 32! That's around the age that is the most common for players to see a huge drop-off in production. But there were rumors that seem to have some weight that he was actually 2-4 years older than advertised. 

So essentially the Angels signed a declining Pujols for ten years, age 35-44. Now we have ages 42-44 to look forward to, for a cool $87 million.

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Absolutely. He's being paid like they are going to tune in.

Which is the problem when you sign ten year contracts.

 

Pujols had won multiple MVPs, won a World Series, and was a sure fire HOFer. Yet his star status in LA has never been above the 3rd guy off the bench on the Lakers in any given year.  And we still have three more years.

And how would the Pujols deal have been if the Angels had signed him at 26?

Many of those accomplishment would have happened in the Angel uniform AND the contract would be over by now saving the Angels from all of the most painful years of the deal.

You know you are making the argument that the only sensible 10 year deal is for a 26 year old player?

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

Fixed.

Albert was (allegedly) 32 in the first year of his contract. 32! That's around the age that is the most common for players to see a huge drop-off in production. But there were rumors that seem to have some weight that he was actually 2-4 years older than advertised. 

So essentially the Angels signed a declining Pujols for ten years, age 35-44. Now we have ages 42-44 to look forward to, for a cool $87 million.

Sorry but this is dumb.   There is no evidence anywhere that Pujols is older than his stated age.  None.

[yk9001]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

And how would the Pujols deal have been if the Angels had signed him at 26?

Many of those accomplishment would have happened in the Angel uniform AND the contract would be over by now saving the Angels from all of the most painful years of the deal.

You know you are making the argument that the only sensible 10 year deal is for a 26 year old player?

Bryce Harper is not Albert Pujols in his 20s.  Never has been, never will be.

I am not making ANY argument for a 10 year contract.

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Absolutely. He's being paid like they are going to tune in.

Which is the problem when you sign ten year contracts.

 

Pujols had won multiple MVPs, won a World Series, and was a sure fire HOFer. Yet his star status in LA has never been above the 3rd guy off the bench on the Lakers in any given year.  And we still have three more years.

Look, I get that you don’t like the guy, and there are plenty of real actual ways to discredit his signing, it is super easy.  But 3rd guy off the bench for the Lakers, is just a wad of shit.  Oh and he is a sure fire HOFer, not WAS.  

[Angel Oracle]

I just can't see paying $33 million/season to a guy who has an .800s OPS one season, then 1.000s the next, then .800s the next, rinse, repeat.

Consistently great is what should be rewarded with the biggest contract, and NOT inconsistency. 

Trout is that consistently great player.   He should set the bar.

[yk9001]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Look, I get that you don’t like the guy, and there are plenty of real actual ways to discredit his signing, it is super easy.  But 3rd guy off the bench for the Lakers, is just a wad of shit.  Oh and he is a sure fire HOFer, not WAS.  

Star power in LA:

LeBron James>Pujols

Kyle Kuzma>Pujols

Brandon Ingram>Pujols

Rajon Rondo>Pujols

Luke Walton>Pujols

Lonzo Ball>Pujols

LaVar Ball>Pujols

 

Pujols has greater star power in LA than JaVale McGee or Kentavious Caldwell Pope.

[Stradling]

Just now, yk9001 said:

Star power in LA:

LeBron James>Pujols

Kyle Kuzma>Pujols

Brandon Ingram>Pujols

Rajon Rondo>Pujols

Luke Walton>Pujols

Lonzo Ball>Pujols

LaVar Ball>Pujols

 

Pujols has greater star power in LA than JaVale McGee or Kentavious Caldwell Pope.

He has better star power than any current Laker except Lebron and possibly Lonzo.  

[yk9001]

Get out of your baseball bubble.

[Stradling]

Just now, yk9001 said:

Get out of your baseball bubble.

Star power, not actual ability to play the game.  Albert has more star power than any Laker not named Lebron and possibly Lonzo.  

[yk9001]

Invite Kuzma and Pujols to an autograph signing at an In N Out.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Invite Kuzma and Pujols to an autograph signing at an In N Out.  

Ok.  Anyone who wouldn’t want a hall of famer autograph over a nice NBA player is ridiculous.  You are exaggerating again.  Should I invite Rondo, and Luke Walton too?  How bout Ingram?  

[Stradling]

Star Power in LA:

Lebron

Kershaw

Jerry West?  Maybe

Ohtani

Trout

Albert

Girlie

Donald

Kuzma