How overrated is Bryce Harper?

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

I corrected him multiple times that Harper's career WAR is actually 27.4 but he never responded.

You do realize there are different versions of WAR? He is using Fangraphs.

[beatlesrule]

No I did not. I always use this site

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtml

[Tyler]

Not overrated at all. It should be embarrassing for Major League Baseball that this guy is still not signed. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Tyler said:

Not overrated at all. It should be embarrassing for Major League Baseball that this guy is still not signed. 

He had a 1.3 bWAR last year.  He is asking for 10 years and over $300 million.  It is far from MLBs fault.  Hell he already turned down 10 years and $300 million.  When did we just decide that no one is accountable for their own actions?  Jesus Christ.  

[m0nkey]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He had a 1.3 bWAR last year.  He is asking for 10 years and over $300 million.  It is far from MLBs fault.  Hell he already turned down 10 years and $300 million.  When did we just decide that no one is accountable for their own actions?  Jesus Christ.  

Ask the libs

[Angelsjunky]

19 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

No I did not. I always use this site

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtml

There are three main versions: Fangraphs (sometimes differentiated as fWAR), Baseball Reference (rWAR), and Baseball Prospectus (WARP), although the last is far less known and not used as much. The main difference, at least between Fangraphs and BR, is how they calculate defense. Pitching is also quite different.

I tend to find Fangraphs to be the best. Baseball Reference is rather wonky in terms of how it values defense, and the pitchers also tend to be all over the place.

[Tyler]

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He had a 1.3 bWAR last year.  He is asking for 10 years and over $300 million.  It is far from MLBs fault.  Hell he already turned down 10 years and $300 million.  When did we just decide that no one is accountable for their own actions?  Jesus Christ.  

 

There is money out there. This is an elite talent. Leave Jesus out of this. It's no surprise to see a player like Kyler Murray pass up on MLB. Look at the FA still available not getting jobs.

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Tyler said:

 

There is money out there. This is an elite talent. Leave Jesus out of this. It's no surprise to see a player like Kyler Murray pass up on MLB. Look at the FA still available not getting jobs.

He turned down $300 million. That’s 100% on him.  

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

There are three main versions: Fangraphs (sometimes differentiated as fWAR), Baseball Reference (rWAR), and Baseball Prospectus (WARP), although the last is far less known and not used as much. The main difference, at least between Fangraphs and BR, is how they calculate defense. Pitching is also quite different.

I tend to find Fangraphs to be the best. Baseball Reference is rather wonky in terms of how it values defense, and the pitchers also tend to be all over the place.

the reason both defense and pitcher are all over the place for BR is that they use the defensive metrics to calculate pitcher values.  

[Dtwncbad]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He had a 1.3 bWAR last year.  He is asking for 10 years and over $300 million.  It is far from MLBs fault.  Hell he already turned down 10 years and $300 million.  When did we just decide that no one is accountable for their own actions?  Jesus Christ.  

I don't understand why you are even bringing up WAR for Bryce Harper.  I really don't.  My opinion is all these formulas for compensation based on WAR are only functional at all for the non-star players, where an agent can dig into arguing why his 1.6 WAR client should he paid like some other 1.6 WAR player.

Since we absolutely know Harper is worth more than his WAR because he is an absolute superstar, what is the point?

Are you paying him ONLY for his WAR over 162 games or is part of the analysis his stardom and his game changing, elite level power that could carry a team on his back in a playoff series?

Does Harper get massive amounts of attention?  Yes.  And all the attention featuring the Angel Jersey and logo. . .

This is like saying don't pay Christopher Walken $15m to be in your movie because he only has 30 lines, and most actors that deliver 30 lines normally get paid $2m.

Guess who is featured in the trailer marketing the movie?

 

[Docwaukee]

26 minutes ago, Tyler said:

 

There is money out there. This is an elite talent. Leave Jesus out of this. It's no surprise to see a player like Kyler Murray pass up on MLB. Look at the FA still available not getting jobs.

you must not be in charge of running a business.  

[yk9001]

I love the way that people bestow this almost mystical status on big name players.

Pay a premium dollar 10 year contract so he can carry you on his back in the playoffs?

He has a .211/.315/.487/.801 line over four different playoff series.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=harpebr03&t=b&post=1

[Tyler]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

you must not be in charge of running a business.  

 

The business of losing out of hugely marketable potential assets by shunning current ones?

[well_red]

there are literally no other sports that give out 10 year contracts.  it is ludicrous. 

[m0nkey]

13 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

I love the way that people bestow this almost mystical status on big name players.

Pay a premium dollar 10 year contract so he can carry you on his back in the playoffs?

He has a .211/.315/.487/.801 line over four different playoff series.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=harpebr03&t=b&post=1

He makes mike trout look almost acceptable 

[yk9001]

1 minute ago, well_red said:

there are literally no other sports that give out 10 year contracts.  it is ludicrous. 

Hockey has done a few.  The success I am not sure.

A Harper or Machado are just not that valuable a commodity that teams feel that have to sign to a 10 year contract.  The downside risk is too great.

Baseball did it.  And the results have been less than stellar.  Front offices have learned from that.

This isn't rocket science.

[yk9001]

Bryce Harper can carry you on his back in the playoff!

How many World Series did the Nationals win?

None.

How many World Series did they make?

None.

How many playoff series did they win?

None.

What was his batting average in all his playoff games?

.211

What was his OPS in all his playoff games?

.801

 

 

 

[Lou]

14 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Bryce Harper can carry you on his back in the playoff!

How many World Series did the Nationals win?

None.

How many World Series did they make?

None.

How many playoff series did they win?

None.

What was his batting average in all his playoff games?

.211

What was his OPS in all his playoff games?

.801

 

 

 

he's no Christopher Walken, that's for sure 

[yk9001]

Christopher Walken saying "need more cowbell" is better than anything Harper's done in the playoffs.

[mtangelsfan]

 

[Docwaukee]

28 minutes ago, Tyler said:

 

The business of losing out of hugely marketable potential assets by shunning current ones?

Don't you think most teams have entire departments to analyze the return on that potential?  

This is not a conspiracy.  

It's businesses doing their due diligence in valuing an asset or potential asset.  

And it takes two to tango by the way.  There is interest yet not by the people who he wants to be interested.  So he and his agent (in typical fashion) are playing the waiting game in hopes that someone blinks.  

Also, when was it ever realistic that more than a few teams would have interest in handing out the largest contract in league history?  

[yk9001]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

 

I just watched it again five minutes ago.

I am willing to say that Will Farrell is the best Saturday Night Live player of all time.  Better than the superstars of 40 plus years ago.  Better than Eddie Murphy.

Lorne Michaels should have signed him to a 10 year contract.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, yk9001 said:

I just watched it again five minutes ago.

I am willing to say that Will Farrell is the best Saturday Night Live player of all time.  Better than the superstars of 40 plus years ago.  Better than Eddie Murphy.

Lorne Michaels should have signed him to a 10 year contract.

He would have stopped being funny in year 6

[yk9001]

2 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

He would have stopped being funny in year 6

That's a good point.

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, yk9001 said:

I love the way that people bestow this almost mystical status on big name players.

Pay a premium dollar 10 year contract so he can carry you on his back in the playoffs?

He has a .211/.315/.487/.801 line over four different playoff series.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=harpebr03&t=b&post=1

Trout hit .083 in 1 series so that and even four series is a small sample size. No, you pair him with other premium talent like Trout, Adell, Simmons and Canning/ another starter to even the load into the playoffs. Right now, it's all on Trout's back and it's been proven that he alone can't get us to the playoffs.