LHHs, the new weakness in this org?

[Ohtaniland]

48 minutes ago, Lou said:

lol surely you jest

Jest? Why not make the most productive players the highest compensated each and every year. It keeps them honest and keeps the slackers from getting overpaid and gives then an incentive to work harder in the offseason to get better. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

Jest? Why not make the most productive players the highest compensated each and every year. It keeps them honest and keeps the slackers from getting overpaid and gives then an incentive to work harder in the offseason to get better. 

Because as has been pointed out payrolls would go out of control and it would be next to impossible to budget for.  All for no guarantee of making the playoffs, just like now.  In the other thread that talked about this I pointed out that one of the worst teams in the league would have had a $150 million payroll.  You could have a player go crazy after the trade deadline on a non contender and the only thing that losing team could do is sit the player.  

[Ohtaniland]

Just now, SuperTroopers said:

Because as has been pointed out payrolls would go out of control and it would be next to impossible to budget for.  All for no guarantee of making the playoffs, just like now.  In the other thread that talked about this I pointed out that one of the worst teams in the league would have had a $150 million payroll.  You could have a player go crazy after the trade deadline on a non contender and the only thing that losing team could do is sit the player.  

That’s a crock. Good players should get paid to perform. Everything balances out. Guys like Trout would make top dollar while guys like Calhoun would barely clear the minimum. If your team payroll skyrockets for one or two seasons it’s likely that you’re also bringing in playoff revenue. I like one year deals with a team option. If you’re productive you’ll surely be back, if not, go cry me a river in some other city. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

That’s a crock. Good players should get paid to perform. Everything balances out. Guys like Trout would make top dollar while guys like Calhoun would barely clear the minimum. If your team payroll skyrockets for one or two seasons it’s likely that you’re also bringing in playoff revenue. I like one year deals with a team option. If you’re productive you’ll surely be back, if not, go cry me a river in some other city. 

Except it isn’t a crock.  Sorry.  Payrolls would skyrocket.  On any given team there are a couple of overpaid guys and a dozen underpaid.  

[Ohtaniland]

13 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

Except it isn’t a crock.  Sorry.  Payrolls would skyrocket.  On any given team there are a couple of overpaid guys and a dozen underpaid.  

A couple? Have you seen the production of some of the players on our roster? Most of them are overcompensated and would make much less money under an incentive system. Pujols, Kinsler, Calhoun, Cozart, Valbuena and a few others would all get a reduction in compensation. 

 

edit. By saying that payrolls would skyrocket is admitting that there will be more productive players. I think the owners and fans would like that. Additionally you are too star struck. A Rivera home run should be as equally compensated as a Trout home run. They both count as one run. 

[Stradling]

Just now, OHTANILAND said:

A couple? Have you seen the production of some of the players on our roster? Most of them are overcompensated and would make much less money under an incentive system. Pujols, Kinsler, Calhoun, Cozart, Valbuena and a few others would all get a reduction in compensation. 

SO there’s one team.  And Valbuena and Cozart both have a pretty good chance to earn their contract this year.  

[Warfarin]

There is no chance the players union will ever allow an incentive-based system in which players only earn base salaries with lots of incentives to happen.  None.  No other sport has this either, and the MLB union is probably the strongest of all the sports unions (or at least it was, until this last round of negotiations).

[Ohtaniland]

9 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

There is no chance the players union will ever allow an incentive-based system in which players only earn base salaries with lots of incentives to happen.  None.  No other sport has this either, and the MLB union is probably the strongest of all the sports unions (or at least it was, until this last round of negotiations).

That’s why the owners were so shrewd this past offseason. 

[Ohtaniland]

12 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

SO there’s one team.  And Valbuena and Cozart both have a pretty good chance to earn their contract this year.  

Well if we don’t make the playoffs, you’ll know why. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

Well if we don’t make the playoffs, you’ll know why. 

Yes and it won’t be because we don’t have incentive laden contracts.  Nice narrative change.  

[Warfarin]

Just now, OHTANILAND said:

That’s why the owners were so shrewd this past offseason. 

Owners have learned that baseball's "middle class" isn't worth paying for.  I am guessing you will see the stars still get paid.  Bryce Harper, Mike Trout, Manny Machado, etc.  It is players like Mike Moustakas, etc who get squeezed. 

Moreover, this offseason was also the perfect confluence of events.  Both the Yankees and the Dodgers (traditionally the biggest spenders) were hell bent on getting below the luxury tax level to reset.  I am guessing it's likely/probable they will go back over in the future, but they wanted to get below this offseason to "reset" their penalties.

[Ohtaniland]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Owners have learned that baseball's "middle class" isn't worth paying for.  I am guessing you will see the stars still get paid.  Bryce Harper, Mike Trout, Manny Machado, etc.  It is players like Mike Moustakas, etc who get squeezed. 

Moreover, this offseason was also the perfect confluence of events.  Both the Yankees and the Dodgers (traditionally the biggest spenders) were hell bent on getting below the luxury tax level to reset.  I am guessing it's likely/probable they will go back over in the future, but they wanted to get below this offseason to "reset" their penalties.

Guys like Moustakas would cash in big time this season. Guys like Kinsler would not. I’m convinced that everything would balance out and teams like the Dodgers or Yankees wouldn’t have the ability to outspend you in the offseason because everyone’s base salary would have to start the same regardless each and every season.  You can still lock the player in for several years if he decides he wants to stay. Each player can make anywhere from $1M to $50M + per season depending on their production. 

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Guys like Moustakas would cash in big time this season. Guys like Kinsler would not. I’m convinced that everything would balance out and teams like the Dodgers or Yankees wouldn’t have the ability to outspend you in the offseason because everyone’s base salary would have to start the same regardless each and every season.  You can still lock the player in for several years if he decides he wants to stay. Each player can make anywhere from $1M to $50M + per season depending on their production. 

I get what you are saying, and yes, in an ideal environment, players' salaries would be commensurate with their performance, etc.  But there's no way I see this ever happening, or at least for a very, very, very long time.

I think what is more probable is you see other changes:  arbitration starts earlier, arbitration salaries rise more aggressively, team control changes from 6 years to 4 years, etc.  Teams are definitely less willing now to dole out long-term contracts to players when they can replace them easily with players earning the minimum.  The players' union will definitely respond with the next deal, and the aforementioned ideas are things that will probably be pushed.

[Ohtaniland]

Owners are trying to prevent paying this type of compensation for .255 / .285 / .438 / .723

12:$12M, 13:$16M, 14:$23M, 15:$24M, 16:$25M, 17:$26M, 18:$27M, 19:$28M, 20:$29M, 21:$30M

[Stradling]

Moustakas has a big year last year.  He got $6.5 million. 

[Slegnaac]

2 hours ago, OHTANILAND said:

Every player should start with a base salary and have an equal opportunity to make as much they want to make through incentives. It’s a very good honor system that both the owners and the players should accept. All productive stats should have a monetary value that would include additional additional bonus money for awards, playoff appearances and playoff production.  It’s a win-win for everyone unless you suck. 

Unless you have teammates that suck and never get on base in front of you, or the guy behind is always hitting into the double play.

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

Moustakas has a big year last year.  He got $6.5 million. 

Yep that’s how the current system F’d him while rewarding guys like Kinsler. An incentive based system  corrects all that. 

[Lou]

Unionized industries don't pay on merit.

 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Yep that’s how the current system F’d him while rewarding guys like Kinsler. An incentive based system  corrects all that. 

No this is again wrong.   

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Yep that’s how the current system F’d him while rewarding guys like Kinsler. An incentive based system  corrects all that. 

He F'd himself by overpricing his worth to the teams that were interested in his services. 

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Slegnaac said:

Unless you have teammates that suck and never get on base in front of you, or the guy behind is always hitting into the double play.

If you hit the F’n ball you’ll certainly be compensated for that. As a pitcher, if you get outs and keep your ERA down you’ll certainly be compensated for that too. Your defensive play can also bring you additional incentive compensation. In the end the most productive players will get paid much better than the rest. 

[Stradling]

Kinsler has made about $100 million in his career, he’s accumulated about 55 WAR.   He’s been vastly underpaid in his career.  

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

He F'd himself by overpricing his worth to the teams that were interested in his services. 

He was following the current system standard plans. The owners said F off.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

He was following the current system standard plans. The owners said F off.

The owner offered him $17 million, he said no.   

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, SuperTroopers said:

Kinsler has made about $100 million in his career, he’s accumulated about 55 WAR.   He’s been vastly underpaid in his career.  

There you go with the “let’s pay him for yesterday” plan. That’s the very reason you’ll continue to see overpaid older players roaming the diamond. Yesterday’s heroes wanting today’s pay. Screw that!