Ward off to hot start in AA

[Hubs]

I was looking over minor league stats, and saw Taylor Ward has a .600 BA, with a .625 OBP and .733 SLG in his first weekend of being a third baseman.

 

[GrittyVeterans]

I was actually really encouraged by him last year. If he could learn how to hit for some power he has a chance to be a Major Leaguer still. His walk rate shows that he obviously has an idea of the strike zone and his contact rates are pretty good too. He has all the signs of a good hitter except for power, sometimes that is the last thing to develop for guys

[Taylor]

Quick, trade him to the Mariners while his value is high.

[Hubs]

I do understand if they want to see his bat, but moving him off Catcher is still weird to me.

Like, you can't give him two years backing up Maldonado to learn from him about how to handle a pitching staff?

He defensively can throw it, so his issue really is working with pitchers, am I correct?

[Make Angels Great Again]

They probably really really like Maldonado and want him to be the full time catcher for the foreseeable future.

They also might like Ward's bat and decided to move him so that he isn't blocked by Maldo. They might want him to be more than a backup catcher.

[red321]

11 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I do understand if they want to see his bat, but moving him off Catcher is still weird to me.

Like, you can't give him two years backing up Maldonado to learn from him about how to handle a pitching staff?

He defensively can throw it, so his issue really is working with pitchers, am I correct?

It was pretty clear from the quotes they didn’t think he was working well with the pitchers.

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, Hubs said:

I do understand if they want to see his bat, but moving him off Catcher is still weird to me.

Like, you can't give him two years backing up Maldonado to learn from him about how to handle a pitching staff?

He defensively can throw it, so his issue really is working with pitchers, am I correct?

Yeah I think that sucks he won't catch at all anymore. Because of Ohtani (which is a great thing), the Angels bench/starters need to be versatile.

Imagine for a second that Jahmai Jones is the starting 2B and 4th OF. Ward is the backup at 3B, 1B and catcher. Cozart could start at 3B and back up at SS and 2B. 

With that kind of versatility, the Angels could either carry an extra reliever, a guaranteed SB off the bench like Jarrod Dyson, or a power bat like Chris Carter just to swing for the fence. They could even use that final spot for a prospect like Fernandez that gives you a great chance at a base runner every time he steps to the plate.

It obviously won't happen, but I wish they'd still let Ward catch once every few games just to keep him refreshed there.

[Warfarin]

4 hours ago, Hubs said:

I do understand if they want to see his bat, but moving him off Catcher is still weird to me.

Like, you can't give him two years backing up Maldonado to learn from him about how to handle a pitching staff?

He defensively can throw it, so his issue really is working with pitchers, am I correct?

Just because he isn't catching right now doesn't necessarily mean that he never catches again.  I think for now, they want him to improve his offensive mechanics and focus on learning a 2nd position.  Perhaps if he shows he can do both of those things, he'll go back behind the plate.  It's clear he is not considering a starting catcher of the future, but he could still see some time as a backup catcher perhaps.  He's young, the book is not closed.  It is just being re-written now.

[101halo]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

Just because he isn't catching right now doesn't necessarily mean that he never catches again.  I think for now, they want him to improve his offensive mechanics and focus on learning a 2nd position.  Perhaps if he shows he can do both of those things, he'll go back behind the plate.  It's clear he is not considering a starting catcher of the future, but he could still see some time as a backup catcher perhaps.  He's young, the book is not closed.  It is just being re-written now.

I hope you're right. The quotes to me sounded more like the Magic Johnson, "we need a team leader at PG" quote that was a direct insult to Russell as they traded him than a "we like what he does behind the plate but want to see if we can get extra value and versatility." 

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, 101halo said:

I hope you're right. The quotes to me sounded more like the Magic Johnson, "we need a team leader at PG" quote that was a direct insult to Russell as they traded him than a "we like what he does behind the plate but want to see if we can get extra value and versatility." 

Yeah, I do agree, the quotes did not sound flattering, but maybe we are reading a bit too much into it, too.  We'll see.

His offensive approach was universally panned by scouts as recently as last season, but so far, he's hitting 600 and went 3 for 4 today.  I look forward to seeing how he does as the season progresses.  Versatility is the way of the game now, with players learning to field all sorts of different positions.  If Taylor can become a 3B/C type player, then that is someone who could potentially become a very useful backup for us.

[101halo]

21 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, I do agree, the quotes did not sound flattering, but maybe we are reading a bit too much into it, too.  We'll see.

His offensive approach was universally panned by scouts as recently as last season, but so far, he's hitting 600 and went 3 for 4 today.  I look forward to seeing how he does as the season progresses.  Versatility is the way of the game now, with players learning to field all sorts of different positions.  If Taylor can become a 3B/C type player, then that is someone who could potentially become a very useful backup for us.

What I should remember is that the Angels media is a bit more savvy and subtle than Magic is for the Lakers. The Angels might actually be able to effectively pull off something like this as a motivational tactic for Ward. 

As much as it concerns me, I do hope for the best and really hope you're right, the flexibility would be awesome. Backup catcher only ever plays when he's catching. A backup catcher that plays 3B some days? A lot of extra value there if his bat plays at both positions. 

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, 101halo said:

What I should remember is that the Angels media is a bit more savvy and subtle than Magic is for the Lakers. The Angels might actually be able to effectively pull off something like this as a motivational tactic for Ward. 

As much as it concerns me, I do hope for the best and really hope you're right, the flexibility would be awesome. Backup catcher only ever plays when he's catching. A backup catcher that plays 3B some days? A lot of extra value there if his bat plays at both positions. 

Yup, for sure.  I know some people were surprised when we traded Cron and kept Marte, in essence choosing Marte over Cron.  That just goes to show you how valuable defensively versatility is these days, though.  Marte's ability to play both 1B and 3B (and effectively serve as Valbuena's platoon partner at those positions) is a huge reason as to why he was kept and Cron let go.  

For the unique situation that we have in Ohtani (SP/DH who starts once every 7 days on the mound), we need a lot of defensive versatility.  It's great that the FO is getting players started on that in the minors (Ward, Jones now playing 2B, etc) - we will need all of that versatility in the upcoming years.

[101halo]

Just now, Warfarin said:

Yup, for sure.  I know some people were surprised when we traded Cron and kept Marte, in essence choosing Marte over Cron.  That just goes to show you how valuable defensively versatility is these days, though.  Marte's ability to play both 1B and 3B (and effectively serve as Valbuena's platoon partner at those positions) is a huge reason as to why he was kept and Cron let go.  

For the unique situation that we have in Ohtani (SP/DH who starts once every 7 days on the mound), we need a lot of defensive versatility.  It's great that the FO is getting players started on that in the minors (Ward, Jones now playing 2B, etc) - we will need all of that versatility in the upcoming years.

It also helps towards it seeming to be the trend to give more innings to relievers and less to starters. If you can carry one less bench player and one more reliever that's helpful if the above is your goal. Our situation is a bit different due to Ohtani, but same general idea. 

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, 101halo said:

It also helps towards it seeming to be the trend to give more innings to relievers and less to starters. If you can carry one less bench player and one more reliever that's helpful if the above is your goal. Our situation is a bit different due to Ohtani, but same general idea. 

Yup.  The trend is definitely there, and if you have a bench player who can fill 4-5 spots, then as you said, he can effectively serve the role of 2 bench players, which in turn enables an extra RP to be on the roster.

Also, roster flexibility and options are huge.  As we see right now, we have 10 relievers on the roster - that's 40% of our active roster!  It's fleeting, as some will get sent back down as we call up SPs, but it does go to show you how essential it is to have a bevy of relievers to use.

[101halo]

Just now, Warfarin said:

Yup.  The trend is definitely there, and if you have a bench player who can fill 4-5 spots, then as you said, he can effectively serve the role of 2 bench players, which in turn enables an extra RP to be on the roster.

Also, roster flexibility and options are huge.  As we see right now, we have 10 relievers on the roster - that's 40% of our active roster!  It's fleeting, as some will get sent back down as we call up SPs, but it does go to show you how essential it is to have a bevy of relievers to use.

I hope it's not us, but I do wonder if some team at some point tries a 4 man starting rotation, with every 5th game a planned reliever game. The obvious danger is that the starter gets lit the game before the reliever game (or the one after), but is another way to shift more innings to specialized relievers. 

I'd be interested to know injury trends for starters vs relievers. I have the anecdotal perception that relievers get hurt less frequently, but no data to back that up. 

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, 101halo said:

I hope it's not us, but I do wonder if some team at some point tries a 4 man starting rotation, with every 5th game a planned reliever game. The obvious danger is that the starter gets lit the game before the reliever game (or the one after), but is another way to shift more innings to specialized relievers. 

I'd be interested to know injury trends for starters vs relievers. I have the anecdotal perception that relievers get hurt less frequently, but no data to back that up. 

I remember reading the Rays were going to try a 4-man rotation.  I'm not sure if they have actually gone through with that plan, though.

While I don't have evidence, I'm sure that starters get injured more frequently than relievers.  The amount of repetitive strain on the elbow is just way, way more for a starter than a reliever.  Considering how often you see SPs need surgeries these days, it makes sense that teams are shying away from giving big money to SPs, and instead going with young pitchers and hoping enough of them stay healthy.

[101halo]

1 minute ago, Warfarin said:

I remember reading the Rays were going to try a 4-man rotation.  I'm not sure if they have actually gone through with that plan, though.

While I don't have evidence, I'm sure that starters get injured more frequently than relievers.  The amount of repetitive strain on the elbow is just way, way more for a starter than a reliever.  Considering how often you see SPs need surgeries these days, it makes sense that teams are shying away from giving big money to SPs, and instead going with young pitchers and hoping enough of them stay healthy.

Thanks! 

[Torridd]

9 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, I do agree, the quotes did not sound flattering, but maybe we are reading a bit too much into it, too.  We'll see.

His offensive approach was universally panned by scouts as recently as last season, but so far, he's hitting 600 and went 3 for 4 today.  I look forward to seeing how he does as the season progresses.  Versatility is the way of the game now, with players learning to field all sorts of different positions.  If Taylor can become a 3B/C type player, then that is someone who could potentially become a very useful backup for us.

Good points. Also, this move may be a "relieve pressure" move as Catcher may be the toughest position to handle with not only the physical side in defense and hitting, but dealing with the pitchers. They may feel with his mind freed from all those heavy thoughts that he can just focus on hitting and his natural ability will shine.

[Inside Pitch]

At this point -- if he becomes a .270/.330/.425, third baseman it would be a huge win for the organization...

[DMVol]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

At this point -- if he becomes a .270/.330/.425, third baseman it would be a huge win for the organization...

That may be a little optimistic but I don't think it's necessarily an unreasonable expectation....which is why I don't see any downside with the position switch....give it a shot.....

[eaterfan]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

At this point -- if he becomes a .270/.330/.425, third baseman it would be a huge win for the organization...

I still think the Angels would be better off with him being a .260/.320/.415 C. Even if he can't handle the staff other teams probably won't know that. Or they would be willing to take a chance. That is actually pretty valuable for a catcher and if they think they can teach how to handle a pitching staff then he's a much better trade chip than he is posting a .755 OPS as a 3rd baseman. 

[Dick B Back]

2 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

and if they think they can teach how to handle a pitching staff 

If I remember reading right, they determined that he would never have this ability.

[eaterfan]

5 minutes ago, Dick B Back said:

If I remember reading right, they determined that he would never have this ability.

Maybe another team thinks they can, that their methods of coaching are better than the Angels. Also, the other team might not know how well or poorly Ward is handling the staff. They might not even have framing data. If guys in the Angels org were saying he's doing a great job handling the staff then none of us would have any idea he wasn't doing well. 

[Inside Pitch]

6 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I still think the Angels would be better off with him being a .260/.320/.415 C. Even if he can't handle the staff other teams probably won't know that. Or they would be willing to take a chance. That is actually pretty valuable for a catcher and if they think they can teach how to handle a pitching staff then he's a much better trade chip than he is posting a .755 OPS as a 3rd baseman. 

I agree with you, it just seems they have punted on his work with pitchers, so my comments are more about them being able to salvage the situation.

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

That may be a little optimistic but I don't think it's necessarily an unreasonable expectation....which is why I don't see any downside with the position switch....give it a shot.....

Yep, the slugging would be pretty optimistic, the obp is maybe a little light given what he's shown.  The unknown is how his offense responds to no longer having to catch.   My numbers were guesswork and wishful thinking more than anything else.

[Chuck]

11 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I still think the Angels would be better off with him being a .260/.320/.415 C. Even if he can't handle the staff other teams probably won't know that. Or they would be willing to take a chance. That is actually pretty valuable for a catcher and if they think they can teach how to handle a pitching staff then he's a much better trade chip than he is posting a .755 OPS as a 3rd baseman. 

Maybe they believed that everything that went into being a catcher under Scioscia's regime takes a lot of focus off the development in his hitting?

From early reports he's looked good defensively at 3B and he definitely has the arm to stick there. 

I see a lot of former catcher turned 3B Josh Donaldson in Taylor Ward's big league trajectory.