I got your voter fraud right here!

[Brandon]

11 minutes ago, Glen said:

I disagree, especially when we're talking about voting for POTUS. For a national election,  states shouldn't have different requirements for voting.

agreed.

take it a step further and also have local and state voting procedures be uniform as national voting.

i don't know how efficient the voting process is for everyone, but the integrity ensuring the right people vote and are accounted for should be the top priority.

[Tank]

i have absolutely no problem with showing ID in order to vote and verify who i am. i really don't see how this is a discriminatory practice, either, unless there are specifically targeted groups of minorities they are trying to prevent from voting. 

i get that not everyone drives or travels internationally, but what's difficult or discriminatory about getting a state ID card?

i would think as a nation we'd want all of our elections to be completely above board, and being able to prove your identity shouldn't be seen as a bad thing.

[Thomas]

7 minutes ago, Tank said:

i have absolutely no problem with showing ID in order to vote and verify who i am. i really don't see how this is a discriminatory practice, either, unless there are specifically targeted groups of minorities they are trying to prevent from voting. 

i get that not everyone drives or travels internationally, but what's difficult or discriminatory about getting a state ID card?

i would think as a nation we'd want all of our elections to be completely above board, and being able to prove your identity shouldn't be seen as a bad thing.

The motivation is that the urban voter is more likely to vote Democrat, regardless of race, while getting a ID in an urban center is going to be harder than in a rural area. Thus in theory more urban voters would be affected than rural voters if/when the change is made, benefiting Republicans. To compound this it can be made even harder for especially Democratic voting centers, such as areas with a high percentage of minorities, by reducing the number of places these id's can be obtained while making it super easy for rural voters.

[mtangelsfan]

This is what I don't get Thomas.  How is it easier in rural areas.  There are towns in Montana where you have to drive a couple hundred miles to get to a place with a dmv.

 

[Adam]

I'd rather we deal with politician fraud

[red321]

1) verified instances of voter fraud is practically nil, even less so when you take into consideration the amount of voter id fraud that it would take to turn an election and how it would be impossible to pull this off on a large scale. You would have to have a large coordinated effort of people who have voting rolls and then go to various precincts and pretend to be someone else and help that none of the people working the precinct know the people they are trying to impersonate.

2) it's very easy to say..."well, an ID isn't an issue for me...why should it be for everyone else"...for some people getting an ID is an issue. Let's just start with IDs. If you don't drive you don't have an ID...ok, get a state identification or Voter ID...but you have to travel to said location, and that means taking time off of work and maybe going without pay for that day if your job doesn't offer vacation days, and traveling to the location (and in the case of places like Wisconsin and Alabama concerted efforts were made to close offices in minority districts), which could be hundreds of miles away. States have different rules on what is required to get the appropriate voting ID...very specific rules on birth certificates or other items that may require additional days off work and efforts. So, you put these rules in place...hey...you can use a firearm license as voter id...but not a school id...or you put rules in place but don't necessarily provide education so people understand what identification is required or how to get the appropriate identification. For you none of this is likely an issue, for me, a non-issue...but for poorer people living in rural areas...it can absolutely be a burden, especially when hurdles are put in the way. One office in Wisconsin was only open on the 5th Wednesday of the month. Which means it was open 4 days.

 

John Oliver did a solid breakdown

 

[Thomas]

8 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

This is what I don't get Thomas.  How is it easier in rural areas.  There are towns in Montana where you have to drive a couple hundred miles to get to a place with a dmv.

How many people live in these isolated areas? How many really aren't driving Ford F-250s? 3? The number of ranchers or other isolated occupations without a driver's license has to be infinitesimal. When you live in BFE you get used to driving a long way for groceries so stopping for 5 minutes to pop in and out of a barely used MVD isn't going to faze them. I did forget to mention suburban areas which votes typically right of center though less so than rural. The sheer scale of people in the urban centers dwarf the very isolated number of ID-less shack dwellers in the Rocky Mountain west. I mean clearly the Republicans did the math and figured out that this makes sense. They clearly are not sincerely concerned about the integrity of the vote as opposed to tilting the playing field more in their favor. Though if they catch a few ineligible voters, who would likely skew left, so much the better for them.

[mtangelsfan]

Maybe their motives are as vile as you claim them to be but your argument has now changed.  It isn't "easier" for rural areas to get ID's.  

[Thomas]

I certainly live in a rural area. Our two biggest stores is a Walmart (it's full size though there are only usually one or two checkers open on Saturdays because they still don't have lines) and a Tractor Supply Co. And of course a Dollar General because you ain't neck without one of those. The MVD is in the next town over but there isn't usually a wait. When I voted there was also no wait.  And it was a small enough town that they knew BEFORE looking at the voting rolls that my wife had already voted. When I voted in 2008 in California even in the burbs the wait was over an hour.

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

Maybe their motives are as vile as you claim them to be but your argument has now changed.  It isn't "easier" for rural areas to get ID's.  

For 99% of the rural population it IS easier. For the 1% who live a good distance away an ID is basically a requirement. And they still quite possibly may get their ID faster than someone in the Valley getting their ID from the Van Nuys DMV.

[mtangelsfan]

There are towns that are a couple hundred miles from a Wal-Mart.

If there are MVD's in the courthouse they may have limited hours.  

Look, as I said earlier, I think they need to make sure ID's are easily obtainable before they put in stricter voter ID laws but I don't think the notion or idea of them is racist, or any kind of "ist".

[mtangelsfan]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

For 99% of the rural population it IS easier. For the 1% who live a good distance away an ID is basically a requirement. And they still quite possibly may get their ID faster than someone in the Valley getting their ID from the Van Nuys DMV.

We don't have buses, subways, or any other kind of public transportation.  

[Thomas]

You do realize that Montana is not the exactly the mean when it population density, right? Your state is the 3rd least dense. If you though go down the list and pass the two Dakotas you'll find my state. Our town's Walmart if you drew a circle on the area it serves would be larger in geographic area than a decent number of states. I don't think your example however would apply to anywhere in the south or midwest where the population metrics don't match Mongolia.

[red321]

hey now...did you just call MT a Mongoloid? 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, red321 said:

hey now...did you just call MT a Mongoloid? 

Well I've never heard anyone rave about Montana bbq.

[Tank]

so to prevent a small number of people from the inconvenience of having to go to the big city for a dmv appointment, let's make it possible for them to apply for a state ID at their local post office, the same place for which you can apply for a federal passport. 

we seem to want to accommodate a few at the expense of the many rather find a solution that works well for all.

[mtangelsfan]

9 minutes ago, Thomas said:

You do realize that Montana is not the exactly the mean when it population density, right? Your state is the 3rd least dense. If you though go down the list and pass the two Dakotas you'll find my state. Our town's Walmart if you drew a circle on the area it serves would be larger in geographic area than a decent number of states. I don't think your example however would apply to anywhere in the south or midwest where the population metrics don't match Mongolia.

We just hosted a missionary from Mongolia.....................interesting.

Regardless, I am obviously not arguing that as many people are effected, just rebutting your argument that it is easier to obtain an ID in rural areas.  

[Thomas]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

 just rebutting your argument that it is easier to obtain an ID in rural areas.  

[mtangelsfan]

If you say so

[red321]

is the simpsons the official insult gif of this board

[Thomas]

Just now, red321 said:

is the simpsons the official insult gif of this board

First of all that is a jpg and second of all you probably are the type of cretin that pronounces gif with a J

[red321]

how dare you...like all good americans a silent n

[Kevin]

6 hours ago, Glen said:

Shit, I still use gmail. But this wasn't a forward.

So, MT, what's your opinion on this?

Whoa whoa...whoa...

 

Is gmail not cool anymore? 

[Brandon]

gmail is still tops