Angels acquire Danny Espinosa from Nats for Kyle McGowin and Austin Adams

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Nats fans seem ecstatic to be rid of him.

I would be too if it was clearing room for Trea Turner. 

Danny Espinosa is effectively replacing Johnny Giavotella. He is a huge improvement.

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

Just looking at stats, i think we just traded for Caleb Cowart.. Low batting average, low obp, good defense, a little bit of hr power, switch hitter. But we payed $ 5 mil more than Cowart. If it weren't for the intentional walks Danny was given batting 8th, so they could get to the pitcher, he would have a sub ,300 obp. This trade makes no sense to me as he is what 6 years older than Caleb. This , to me , only makes sense if they plan on using Caleb at 3rd and trading Escobar for a pitcher. This would make for a lockdown infield defense.

 

Yeah those three intentional walks hitting eighth did wonders for his OBP.

[greginpsca]

4 minutes ago, Angels_Baseball said:

This is a lazy comparison. Espinosa is much better defensively and his power and walks make him useful offensively. Cowart has shown zero signs to figuring it out offensively and if the Angels thought highly of him, he would've been handed a gig a while ago. 

i see your points, but disagree a bit. Cowart has only been getting a couple of ab's a week with the Angels, except when Escobar went down . During that time he hit in the ,275 range. It looks to me what Cowart needs is consistent ab's. He is also just as good or better defensively. and Danny strikes out about a third of the time.

 

 

[Brent Maguire]

Just now, greginpsca said:

i see your points, but disagree a bit. Cowart has only been getting a couple of ab's a week with the Angels, except when Escobar went down . During that time he hit in the ,275 range. It looks to me what Cowart needs is consistent ab's. He is also just as good or better defensively.

 

I think Cowart can be a good defender but Espinosa is better. The numbers loved him as a shortstop last year and even more so as a second baseman the year before. He's one of the better defensive middle infielders in baseball.

I clamored for Cowart receiving more at bats but the guy showed nothing in his time. Horrid approach at the plate with far too many ground balls to be useful. I think he's at the point where he could be traded for a player in a similar position before Opening Day. 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Angels_Baseball said:

This trade got me thinking: Is Cliff Pennington necessary now? With Espinosa on board, he has the flexibility to play 2B/SS/3B. Maybe Eppler has more planned now that he has 3 shortstops on board.

Maybe Eppler can shop Pennington as a piece that can offset an overpaid reliever/starter coming back to Anaheim? Glen Perkins(coming off shoulder surgery/owed 6.5 mil in '17) or Clay Buccholz(owed 13.5 mil in '17) are 2 guys who make sense. Hypothetically, you could get either guy, with cash thrown in with Buccholz. Now, you've added another pitcher and can utilize the rest of the cash for one more reliever/starter and add someone like Chris Coghlan who can play some 2B and LF. 

Maybe they really do plan to have Espinosa play 2B all year long but I could see Eppler acquiring another part time 2B like Coghlan/Drew who can spell Espinosa and allow Danny to play some other positions too. 

 

So far, Eppler really hasn't shown a penchant fog making more moves than he has to. It makes sense, but I think he's going to go a more traditional route and spend 7 million on a reliever and pick up a decent 4th OF for cheap and call it done.

[Brent Maguire]

Just now, greginpsca said:

i see your points, but disagree a bit. Cowart has only been getting a couple of ab's a week with the Angels, except when Escobar went down . During that time he hit in the ,275 range. It looks to me what Cowart needs is consistent ab's. He is also just as good or better defensively.

 

I think Cowart can be a good defender but Espinosa is better. The numbers loved him as a shortstop last year and even more so as a second baseman the year before. He's one of the better defensive middle infielders in baseball.

I clamored for Cowart receiving more at bats but the guy showed nothing in his time. Horrid approach at the plate with far too many ground balls to be useful. I think he's at the point where he could be traded for a player in a similar position before Opening Day. 

[Brent Maguire]

10 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

So far, Eppler really hasn't shown a penchant fog making more moves than he has to. It makes sense, but I think he's going to go a more traditional route and spend 7 million on a reliever and pick up a decent 4th OF for cheap and call it done.

Yeah this is more wishful thinking on my part. Pennington obviously has some value as a good defender who can move around so he'll probably stick around unless another team really needs that useful backup infielder. 

 

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Angels_Baseball said:

Yeah this is more wishful thinking on my part. Pennington obviously has some value as a good defender who can move around so he'll probably stick around unless another team really needs that useful backup infielder. 

 

For Pennington I think we just roll with him as the UT IF, but if a contender gets hit with a couple injuries like we did last year to Simmons and Pennington you may be able to flip him for a low-level filler, or just straight salary dump.

Guys like Pennington flip around often midseason because teams are wary about adding minor league depth to the 40 for short stints for fears of starting clocks for prospects or risking losing depth for AAAA guys once they get bumped back to the minors. During the offseason there isn't a lot of demand for guys like Cliff. 

Similarly, we're better with him to start the year for depth purposes and roster flexibility. 

 

[Angelsjunky]

I don't think the Cowart comp is lazy - there's some truth to it. But I think a more accurate way to look at it is that Espinosa is what Cowart could be, if he learns to hit. Right now we've seen no signs that Cowart can hit well enough to hold a regular gig. Espinosa has, at least, established a baseline level of "mediocre bat, very good defense." At 2B, Cowart is "horrible bat, good defense." Mediocre is better than horrible.

Anyhow, I'm hoping that the Angels still see Cowart as third baseman, as he's really good there. Maybe they plan on giving him some time there, as the lesser part of a platoon with Escobar (maybe one start a week, and late inning replacement). Cowart really needs major league at-bats; if he can get 2-300 this year, we'll have a better sense of whether he can develop into a major league hitter.

[totdprods]

At this point I would be surprised if Cowart even saw an at-bat with the Angels next year. There was plenty of opportunity for him last year and they didn't give him a chance then, and I don't see much room for him as of now. If Escobar gets hurt, Marte will get first dibs.

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

At this point I would be surprised if Cowart even saw an at-bat with the Angels next year. There was plenty of opportunity for him last year and they didn't give him a chance then, and I don't see much room for him as of now. If Escobar gets hurt, Marte will get first dibs.

Well he pretty much just got his cup-o-coffee last year. What he needs now is playing time at the major league level; stashing him in AAA doesn't really give him the time against major league pitchers that he needs. But yeah, you could be right.

[totdprods]

Danny Espinosa actually showed something when he got his first taste of MLB action, Cowart hasn't. 
Both made their debut in their age 23 season. 

Kaleb Cowart's first 139 PAs: .176/.210/.267/.477, 33 OPS+. 23 H, 6 2B, 2 HR, 12 RBI, 5 BB, 42 K. -0.5 WAR
Danny Espinosa's first 112 PAs: .214/.277/.447/.723, 92 OPS+. 22 H, 4 2B, 6 HR, 15 RBI, 9 BB, 30 K, 0.7 WAR

Similar players when it comes to skill set - I will give you that - and Cowart did get jerked around on playing time whereas Espinosa got virtually a full month of September, but Espinosa also took advantage right off the bat. In his first week he hit .409/.435/.955/1.389 with 3 2Bs, 3 HRs, and 10 RBI.

Cowart has struggled to see more than 3 pitches per plate appearance, didn't draw a single walk last year, and didn't really wow me with this defense at second base either. Third base was a different story, but he didn't look comfortable at 2B.

[Angelsjunky]

Yeah, similar skill sets, but Kaleb hasn't shown anything with the bat yet. That's why I said Espinosa is what Cowart could be if he learns to hit (just a bit).

Kaleb might do better in an organization that is in rebuilding mode and/or small market with low expectations, so that he gets an extended chance. I'm wondering if the Angels might hope he rakes in AAA and then can trade him. On the other hand, who is the third baseman in 2018 and beyond? Maybe Marte? Actually, this could be the year that the Angels decide who to go with longer turn: Cowart, Marte, or some other option.

I'm wondering if there's been any thought to converting Thaiss to third base. Catchers sometimes convert well to the hot corner.

[totdprods]

20 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yeah, similar skill sets, but Kaleb hasn't shown anything with the bat yet. That's why I said Espinosa is what Cowart could be if he learns to hit (just a bit).

Kaleb might do better in an organization that is in rebuilding mode and/or small market with low expectations, so that he gets an extended chance. I'm wondering if the Angels might hope he rakes in AAA and then can trade him. On the other hand, who is the third baseman in 2018 and beyond? Maybe Marte? Actually, this could be the year that the Angels decide who to go with longer turn: Cowart, Marte, or some other option.

I'm wondering if there's been any thought to converting Thaiss to third base. Catchers sometimes convert well to the hot corner.

He feels like the kinda guy who could get traded for a player DFA'ed and the parent club has ten days to release or trade said player, as he's probably close to that bubble himself. I'm good keeping him in the org for now and stashed at SLC - if he can put up some gaudy offensive counting stats down there it may give his trade value a little bump, and I'd also be open to seeing if he shows anything else because of what you mentioned about future depth. But I also won't cry if he's cut soon. 

Going to be very interesting to see what Eppler is planning to do about this team in 2018. Two relievers, two starters, three infielders, and an outfielder are all in their walk year - likely two outfielders once we address 4th OF. That's 9 players on the 25-man. He's going to have his hands full next offseason given that the upper minors don't have much to offer as internal replacements.

51 players played for the Angels in 2015, Dipoto's last year. Only 15 of them are still in the system today.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I'm happy and excited about this deal!!!

Like I said previously,

Great kid, Outstanding Family, local kid = Santa Ana, Mater Dei and LBST, Fantastic defensively (makes us arguably one of the best up the middle in the MLB), Cannon arm, tough as nails isn't afraid to lean into one (19 times in 2011), switch hitter with pop and has had two 3 home run games in his career and 2 in one game in his rookie season (more on this in a bit), outstanding and smart base runner (will steal bases very quick and smart will take the extra base solid knowledge of the game and base running) You will not see a stupid Aybar base running moment with Danny out there, Originally a RH hitter started switch hitting in travel ball a little bit his jr/senior high school seasons and went full time at LBST. He had torn the labrum on his right shoulder in 2012 (diving for a ball in the hole and landed awkwardly on it) which took away from his left handed swing he played through it (kid is tough as nails) had surgery during the post season and missed all but 33 games in 2013. Another issue with the Nationals I will say that their hitting coaches and philosophy of hitting changes through out the Organization and from minors to majors (a bit of lack of continuity there). His best seasons hitting were under the tutelage of (Rick Eckstein) YES, that Eckstein!!! or David's brother.....So, after coming back from the labrum tear 2014 was his rehab season. batting #'s came back in 2015 up to .240/.311/.409... 2016 season his hitting stats all dropped (as he was told to focus purely on playing GG defense at a new position SS) which he had only played when Desmond was out previously. Though he was drafted as a slick fielding SS with a cannon arm from LBST and played SS in the minors. he was switched to 2B when he came up to the BIGS. There was some issues with the hitting philosophy and Schu was not renewed when they let Matt Williams go then Baker brought him back though there was a rumble throughout the clubhouse about it..... (the Young Star and future FA also didn't like it)....

New father last year (there were some issues in the middle of the season which weighed on him and his family)! So, being close to home and his young and growing family (Home cooking) will help him immensely! 

http://www.federalbaseball.com/2016/3/15/11241012/nationals-shortstop-danny-espinosa-gets-tmz-treatment-after-gender

http://www.longbeachstate.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/espinosa_danny01.html

 

Like I said before, He is a great kid and outstanding young man and our community will end up loving this kid. Our defense up the middle has just went to the top 3-5 in the MLB. If he can get to the .230-.250 with 20 bombs, 60-70 rbi, 15-20 SB's, and .989-.995 fielding %.... WE are golden!

** Forgot to add** prior to last year he had made 13 errors at 2B in 4 years.....With a high of 6 in 2012.... 

[tdawg87]

5 hours ago, Hubs said:

Giavotella wasnt the answer. Last year they had three black holes on offense and while we addressed LF how does acquiring one of the worst offensive NL players improve 2nd? So we went from 30th in production to 29? Defensively this is a win, but if he's a black hole on offense? If they bring in a platoon partner and ditch Pennington I'll be happy. Espinosa has really only been the full time guy two of the last four years. 2012 at 2B and 2016 at SS. He should be used to a platoon and Utley or Drew would reall make me happy now. (Or Turner, of course)

I mean, he's definitely not a big upgrade with the bat, but if we want that we're going to have to give up a lot more. He is an upgrade offensively though, and he's a significant upgrade defensively, so he's better than what we had.

That said, he may very well end up being platooned anyway. But if he isn't, he'll still be a pretty big upgrade over what we had already.

[ettin]

By the way in regard to the stories about Espinosa having an attitude and not attending the Nationals fan meeting I can sympathize a bit with Danny in the fact that he is in his last year of team control and on the brink of free agency. Playing him part-time would seriously diminish his free agency value and if I were him I would have serious concerns about what will likely be his best shot at a payday in his baseball career. I still don't like that he blew off the fans but I also think he had to get a point across to management that they were impacting his livelihood. It could have been done in a different way that doesn't hurt the end consumer (fans) but I kind of get it.

[totdprods]

This is really what sells it for me - the defense. 
Espinosa, 4,402.2 career innings at 2B:
25 defensive runs saved,
27 Ultimate Zone Rating,
8.1 UZR/150. 

Giavotella, 2,814.1 career innings at 2B:
-19 defensive runs saved,
-16.7 Ultimate Zone Rating,
-8.7 UZR/150.

Even if defensive stats are a bit difficult to rely on, there's a difference between Espinosa and Giavotella that is absolutely massive.

[ettin]

31 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

I'm happy and excited about this deal!!!

Like I said previously,

Great kid, Outstanding Family, local kid = Santa Ana, Mater Dei and LBST, Fantastic defensively (makes us arguably one of the best up the middle in the MLB), Cannon arm, tough as nails isn't afraid to lean into one (19 times in 2011), switch hitter with pop and has had two 3 home run games in his career and 2 in one game in his rookie season (more on this in a bit), outstanding and smart base runner (will steal bases very quick and smart will take the extra base solid knowledge of the game and base running) You will not see a stupid Aybar base running moment with Danny out there, Originally a RH hitter started switch hitting in travel ball a little bit his jr/senior high school seasons and went full time at LBST. He had torn the labrum on his right shoulder in 2012 (diving for a ball in the hole and landed awkwardly on it) which took away from his left handed swing he played through it (kid is tough as nails) had surgery during the post season and missed all but 33 games in 2013. Another issue with the Nationals I will say that their hitting coaches and philosophy of hitting changes through out the Organization and from minors to majors (a bit of lack of continuity there). His best seasons hitting were under the tutelage of (Rick Eckstein) YES, that Eckstein!!! or David's brother.....So, after coming back from the labrum tear 2014 was his rehab season. batting #'s came back in 2015 up to .240/.311/.409... 2016 season his hitting stats all dropped (as he was told to focus purely on playing GG defense at a new position SS) which he had only played when Desmond was out previously. Though he was drafted as a slick fielding SS with a cannon arm from LBST and played SS in the minors. he was switched to 2B when he came up to the BIGS. There was some issues with the hitting philosophy and Schu was not renewed when they let Matt Williams go then Baker brought him back though there was a rumble throughout the clubhouse about it..... (the Young Star and future FA also didn't like it)....

New father last year (there were some issues in the middle of the season which weighed on him and his family)! So, being close to home and his young and growing family (Home cooking) will help him immensely! 

http://www.federalbaseball.com/2016/3/15/11241012/nationals-shortstop-danny-espinosa-gets-tmz-treatment-after-gender

http://www.longbeachstate.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/espinosa_danny01.html

 

Like I said before, He is a great kid and outstanding young man and our community will end up loving this kid. Our defense up the middle has just went to the top 3-5 in the MLB. If he can get to the .230-.250 with 20 bombs, 60-70 rbi, 15-20 SB's, and .989-.995 fielding %.... WE are golden!

** Forgot to add** prior to last year he had made 13 errors at 2B in 4 years.....With a high of 6 in 2012.... 

Thanks for the background Slappy! I would go further and say that our up the middle defense is now the best in baseball: Trout, Simmons, Espinosa, and Perez and Bandy are all exceptional defenders so in terms of run prevention we literally have great defense at every position except the corners (and the offseason isn't over yet).

[ettin]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

This is really what sells it for me - the defense. 
Espinosa, 4,402.2 career innings at 2B: 25 defensive runs saved, 27 Ultimate Zone Rating, 8.1 UZR/150. 
Giavotella, 2,814.1 career innings at 2B: -19 defensive runs saved, -16.7 Ultimate Zone Rating, -8.7 UZR/150.

Even if defensive stats are a bit difficult to rely on, there's a difference between Espinosa and Giavotella that is absolutely massive.

That is approximately a 4 win difference in defense. He's likely to be close to Giavotella's offensive output so as tots has shown this is very likely a significant upgrade particularly with a heavier groundball pitching staff. Very pleased with the defensive side of this without a doubt.

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, ettin said:

Thanks for the background Slappy! I would go further and say that our up the middle defense is now the best in baseball: Trout, Simmons, Espinosa, and Perez and Bandy are all exceptional defenders so in terms of run prevention we literally have great defense at every position except the corners (and the offseason isn't over yet).

Cron showed big improvement, Calhoun is great, Maybin may wind up being a great LFer. Escobar is still probably on borrowed time, but we don't have much of an alternative at lead-off yet so I imagine he is here for awhile.

[ettin]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Cron showed big improvement, Calhoun is great, Maybin may wind up being a great LFer. Escobar is still probably on borrowed time, but we don't have much of an alternative at lead-off yet so I imagine he is here for awhile.

And you know what we don't actually need exceptional defenders at the corners now because our SS and 2B have such incredible range that they can play tighter to the lines and it helps seal up the infield even more than normal preventing some of those down the line doubles and triples.

[Brent Maguire]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yeah, similar skill sets, but Kaleb hasn't shown anything with the bat yet. That's why I said Espinosa is what Cowart could be if he learns to hit (just a bit).

Kaleb might do better in an organization that is in rebuilding mode and/or small market with low expectations, so that he gets an extended chance. I'm wondering if the Angels might hope he rakes in AAA and then can trade him. On the other hand, who is the third baseman in 2018 and beyond? Maybe Marte? Actually, this could be the year that the Angels decide who to go with longer turn: Cowart, Marte, or some other option.

I'm wondering if there's been any thought to converting Thaiss to third base. Catchers sometimes convert well to the hot corner.

I've been thinking he'd make a lot more sense for a smaller market team like Oakland or San Diego. Maybe those teams have a player in a similar situation who offers some upside but hasn't done enough to warrant getting MLB playing time. Angels could hypothetically add some talent that way and with Marte in the fold, I'm not sure where Cowart fits. 

[VariousCrap]

24 minutes ago, ettin said:

By the way in regard to the stories about Espinosa having an attitude and not attending the Nationals fan meeting I can sympathize a bit with Danny in the fact that he is in his last year of team control and on the brink of free agency. Playing him part-time would seriously diminish his free agency value and if I were him I would have serious concerns about what will likely be his best shot at a payday in his baseball career. I still don't like that he blew off the fans but I also think he had to get a point across to management that they were impacting his livelihood. It could have been done in a different way that doesn't hurt the end consumer (fans) but I kind of get it.

 

I agree 100%.  In fact, it doesn't bother me one bit he blew the event off.  He got F'd over big time.

[disarcina]

strong D at second and SS for 2017.

I like it.

Now some pen help and perhaps a big bat LF'er  type and we're good to go.

sounds like the rotation is set with what we have and about 7/8 guys battling for the 5th spot and the at least THREE 4-A spots (if past injuries and missed starts in the rotation is any guide).

doesn't sound like a perennial contending team but I do like the strong up the middle approach.

who is behind the plate for us in 2017 ?