Burned by the promise of a bullpen before...

[Second Base]

http://monkeywithahalo.com/uncategorized/burned-by-the-promise-of-a-bullpen-before.html

Once it was Steven Geltz, David Carpenter and Michael Kohn.  Then it was R.J. Alvarez, Mike Morin and Cam Bedrosian.  Now, it's Kevin Grendell, Eduardo Paredes and Key Middleton. 

[Jason]

A club pretty much has to get lucky with their relief pitchers

[arch stanton]

Just keep throwing them out there until a couple stick to the wall. Remember how nice it was when you could bring in Grilli for the 6th inning and know there were still usable arms to finish the game? Seems like 100 years ago.

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, Angels N Skins said:

A club pretty much has to get lucky with their relief pitchers

Yes and no...   There is always reliever volatility but for a period of time we seemingly traded every mediocre or failed SP we had in the system away - those guys tend to become the lifeblood of BPs.   Percy, Shields -- both were failed starters.  Mariano Rivera...  also a failed starter.  He had been used only as a SP in the minors from 1991 right up until the end of the 95 season.

The one good thing about JD having drafted all those low ceiling SPs is that unless we continue to trade them all away we will likely see a few of them be converted to RPs and be better off for it.  Middelton is probably the most obvious example currently.

[Inside Pitch]

Sort of trippy the David Carpenter most people might remember was last a member of the Angels, while the David Carpenter you're talking about was last with the Braves...

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Sort of trippy the David Carpenter most people might remember was last a member of the Angels, while the David Carpenter you're talking about was last with the Braves...

 

Yeah, weird odds to have two so close together in terms of years, but i guess its not too uncommon of a name. I liked the one a few years back, nice guy. Some decent stories...

[Second Base]

Will Smith comes to mind when talking about SP prospects converted to relief. Sappington is another that should be a stud in relief someday. As far as guys currently in the system, Alcantara, McGowin, Kipper, Ruxer, Scribner could all be bullpen guys if the rotation doesn't work out. 

[Blarg]

@Inside Pitch Percival was a failed catcher before he began pitching but he never was a starter, they put  him right in the bullpen from the beginning. Funny thing was is he wasn't all that good in AAA with an ERA over 4 and WHIP of 1.500 the year before they promoted him to the majors. The next year in the majors he is 4th in ROY voting with an ERA under 2 and a WHIP 0.815. Someone saw something in the blind fireballer. 

[Angel Oracle]

Alcantara has the makings of a Percy or K-Rod, if he can command pitches well enough one inning at a time and have the bulldog mentality.

[Inside Pitch]

Man....  that pic of Percy, he looks so different...  also, you're right about Percy...  Knew he'd been a catcher -- thus the squat before pitching.  I meant K-Rod.

[Blarg]

Percy is probably the best example of how stats can be missleading. His minor league career said lots of strikeouts but God only knows what will happen in between. Hooking him up with Lee Smith in the majors taught him so much more about his role and how to be successful  than anything else. Mentors can make all the difference.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Percy is probably the best example of how stats can be missleading. His minor league career said lots of strikeouts but God only knows what will happen in between. Hooking him up with Lee Smith in the majors taught him so much more about his role and how to be successful  than anything else. Mentors can make all the difference.

This can be Street's legacy for his remaining time with the Halos, mentoring Cam Bedrosian and Key Middleton. 

[Chuck]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yes and no...   There is always reliever volatility but for a period of time we seemingly traded every mediocre or failed SP we had in the system away - those guys tend to become the lifeblood of BPs.   Percy, Shields -- both were failed starters.  Mariano Rivera...  also a failed starter.  He had been used only as a SP in the minors from 1991 right up until the end of the 95 season.

The one good thing about JD having drafted all those low ceiling SPs is that unless we continue to trade them all away we will likely see a few of them be converted to RPs and be better off for it.  Middelton is probably the most obvious example currently.

Dennis Eckersley as well. 

[Inside Pitch]

48 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Percy is probably the best example of how stats can be missleading. His minor league career said lots of strikeouts but God only knows what will happen in between. Hooking him up with Lee Smith in the majors taught him so much more about his role and how to be successful  than anything else. Mentors can make all the difference.

You know what I remember about Percy's development?   It has everything to do with Bryan Harvey and his BS comments..

The Angels had been talking up Percy's potential and his FB from the moment they converted him meanwhile Bryan Harvey was still in Anaheim and for the most part he was really good to dominant when healthy but he always seemed to be hurt..   Anyway, the Angels exposed Harvey to the expansion draft while he was still coming back from an injury, he gets taken by the Marlins and gets off to a blazing start in the NL..  At the All Star game they asked Harvey why he thought the Angels were willing to expose him to the draft and the first damn thing out of his mouth was something like I dunno, but I hear that catcher kid isn't doing so hot in AAA.

Next year, Harvey was hurt again...   

[Inside Pitch]

14 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Dennis Eckersley as well. 

Yep a lot of the all time saved leaders were failed/converted starters.  Lee Smith, John Franco, K-rod, Joe Nathan, Papelbon, Billy Wagner, Eck, Jeff Reardon..   I think the only guy in the all time top ten that wasn't a starter then converted was Hoffman.  Guys like Wetteland, Rollie Fingers, Rick Aguilera, Rob Nenn, Randy Myers, Goose Gossage, and Jose Mesa were all formerly SPs..

The Trevor Hoffman, Bruce Sutter, Huston Street types that started off as RPs aren't that well represented on the all times list..

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yep a lot of the all time saved leaders were failed/converted starters.  Lee Smith, John Franco, K-rod, Joe Nathan, Papelbon, Billy Wagner, Eck, Jeff Reardon..   I think the only guy in the all time top ten that wasn't a starter then converted was Hoffman.  Guys like Wetteland, Rollie Fingers, Rick Aguilera, Rob Nenn, Randy Myers, Goose Gossage, and Jose Mesa were all formerly SPs..

The Trevor Hoffman, Bruce Sutter, Huston Street types that started off as RPs aren't that well represented on the all times list..

Hoffman was a converted infielder.

[greginpsca]

2 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Dennis Eckersley as well. 

i was surprised at the time Eck was converted to a reliever, as he wasn't that bad of a starter.

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

 Percy, Shields -- both were failed starters.

I don't think of Shields as a failed starter, we just had so much pitching talent back then that we could afford to bring him out of the bullpen.

In 2003, the one season where he was used primarily as a starter, he managed a 3.89 era in almost 80 innings.

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't think of Shields as a failed starter, we just had so much pitching talent back then that we could afford to bring him out of the bullpen.

In 2003, the one season where he was used primarily as a starter, he managed a 3.89 era in almost 80 innings.

Failed/converted.... I was being brief.   Some guys just were moved to the role...   Shields is one of those

[ten ocho recon scout]

33 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't think of Shields as a failed starter, we just had so much pitching talent back then that we could afford to bring him out of the bullpen.

In 2003, the one season where he was used primarily as a starter, he managed a 3.89 era in almost 80 innings.

Its funny to sit back and remember a time we had guys who put up a sub 4 era in the steroid era...and said "hey, we have enough good starters. We'll put you in the pen with your plus skills, and see if you fit in with percival, frankie and donnelly"

 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

i was surprised at the time Eck was converted to a reliever, as he wasn't that bad of a starter.

 

The Halos concurred in a 1977 game, where he no-hit them.