Freese Signs With Pirates 1 Year 3 Million

[Inside Pitch]

He's a better offensive player than Gia. All three are bad defensively. So when you talk about pulling Freese every game late, well if that's going to happen then you HAVE to pull Escobar because he is equally bad. One thing I will say is Gia has a chance to improve defensively, while Freese doesn't.

 

The argument could be made there is a chance for Escobar to improve defensively as well (not making that argument myself just pointing out it could happen), but he's had all of one year at 3b.  

 

I think the point Notti is trying to make is that if you add Freese, it might mean the Angels couldn't carry both Gia, and a defensive replacement -- that and the reality that moving Escobar to 2B means more on the job training for him..  How much of Freese's value last year was saved by being able to bring in a better glove to help mask his deficiencies with the glove?  How much of Escobar's was eroded by his not being taken out of games for a defensive replacement?  My guess is the Angels stats people have looked into those variables.

 

Utlimately it may just be the need to have a shit ton of possible LF options that kept the Angels from bringing Freese back.  Who knows.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

IP get's where I'm going. 162 games requires a competant bench to offer days off without a significant loss in production to the position and a true bandaid for unjuries. Outside of that is being able to be flexible in the late innings with defensive or even offensive substitutions for pitching match ups and pinch running. That is the broad spectrum view, not tunnel vision roster making.

If Freese were an undervalued All Star or 2nd tier star you make the move. But he is really only a clean peanut at this stage of his career that has never been one without sulignificant time lost to injury.

Edited March 13, 2016 by notti

[halosfan1970]

You haven't said who you would drop from the 25 man roster to accomodate putting Freese's poor defense, marginal hitting and slo on the basepaths running.

 

 

Which defensive metric(s) support your assessment that Freese is a "poor" defender at 3B?

[Blarg]

Which defensive metric(s) support your assessment that Freese is a "poor" defender at 3B?

SABR

In 2014 he was ranked near bottom of the pile defensively at a - 5.2 SDI while Donaldson scored a 20.2

2015 he didn't have enough games to qualify for a ranking.

http://sabr.org/sdi/2014-09-07

[Inside Pitch]

Which defensive metric(s) support your assessment that Freese is a "poor" defender at 3B?

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9549&position=3B#fielding

 

Freese had a defensive replacement used in 29 of his final 45 starts -- if you look at last year, you have to wonder how much that saved him from himself. 

[Blarg]

Didn't in game 162.

[Stradling]

Just out of curiosity where did Escobar and Gia rank?

[Glen]

IP get's where I'm going. 162 games requires a competant bench to offer days off without a significant loss in production to the position and a true bandaid for unjuries. Outside of that is being able to be flexible in the late innings with defensive or even offensive substitutions for pitching match ups and pinch running. That is the broad spectrum view, not tunnel vision roster making.

If Freese were an undervalued All Star or 2nd tier star you make the move. But he is really only a clean peanut at this stage of his career that has never been one without sulignificant time lost to injury.

I wish this team had more unjuries.

[Blarg]

Just out of curiosity where did Escobar and Gia rank?

crap and crapier.

[Blarg]

Jose altuve ranked bottom of second baseman at a - 10.1 in 2014. In 2015 Giavotella had a - 8.6 ranking.

[halosfan1970]

Jose altuve ranked bottom of second baseman at a - 10.1 in 2014. In 2015 Giavotella had a - 8.6 ranking.

 

So completely unrelated.

[Blarg]

Why do you say that? You asked for a credible source, it was provided. I've offered context as to how first year 2nd baseman fare in defensive value but if you can connect dots you can see that players can improve from their initial baseline. Altuve is much improved since 2014 and just from a visual perspective it looks like Giavotella has improved as well. Freese is not improving.

[Erstad Grit]

Dipoto's horrible depth he provided last year has led us to overvalue Freese IMO. Freese/Gio went down and we replaced them with Kubitza / Featherbat and our team completely fell apart. Fresse/ Gio came back and we just missed out after an inspiring comeback.

 

Like many have said I imagine we offered Freese something reasonable like 1/8 or 2/15 and he turned it down and we moved on with a top hitting nice leadoff alternative. Meanwhile Freese overplayed his hand and was lucky enough to land any job this late into spring training. 

[disarcina]

HalosFan70s asks what stat metric do you use to rate Freese as a defensive liability.

a lot of good responses in the prior posts......his fielding pct. and rating as well as the fact that he was replaced in the late innings by a defensive replacement about 60 percent of the time.

but really the best test of all is this: hey, did you see him play 3B during his time with the Halos and watch him?

He was terrible. Plus he's slow and on top of that was a very weak base runner.......

let's stop debating Freese -- Halos got what they could out of him.....the deal for PJ Bourgis - a good CF -- fast baserunner, great defensively - and who has also moved on from the team he was traded for -- Grichuk - the throw in in the deal turned out the best of any of 'em.......Salas is still with us and I assume is back in our pen for 2016. Salas has pitched well as times for us and then again, has had some rough outings. overall positive though.

but Freese is gone and isn't coming back. he's back in the NL where I predict he gets about 175 abs this year and that's it.

[tdawg87]

Well to be fair there are no stats saying he's a horrible pitcher either.

[Blarg]

Escobar hadn't played third base before last year. So it was irresponsible to put him there as well. And he was horrendous at third base last year. So based on his horrendous year defensively last year, we're going to put him there again? I'd rather put him at second and hope he could play decent there.

 

The stats are there to show he has been a horrible third baseman. DRS -11 and UZR -7.7 in 2015. Just terrible. Near the worst in baseball.

 

There are no stats saying he's a horrible second baseman.

 

Just put him there to create them, why?

[Blarg]

Shortstops are often moved to 3rd base when their effectiveness diminishes. It is an easier transition because they have less ground to cover and fewer fielding responsibilities. Now you think it is advisable to change that?

[ABC]

Jeff Fletcher â€@JeffFletcherOCR  15m15 minutes ago

In case you're still wondering about David Freese, his camp says the Angels never made an offer. Freese signed for $3M with Pit last wk

 

 

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[NrM]

Jeff Fletcher ‏@JeffFletcherOCR 15m15 minutes ago

In case you're still wondering about David Freese, his camp says the Angels never made an offer. Freese signed for $3M with Pit last wk

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of course they didn't

[Inside Pitch]

Escobar hadn't played third base before last year. So it was irresponsible to put him there as well. And he was horrendous at third base last year. So based on his horrendous year defensively last year, we're going to put him there again? I'd rather put him at second and hope he could play decent there.

 

The stats are there to show he has been a horrible third baseman. DRS -11 and UZR -7.7 in 2015. Just terrible. Near the worst in baseball.

 

There are no stats saying he's a horrible second baseman.

 

The transition from SS to 2B is different than from SS to 3B -- the footwork, the throwing, the pivot -- all different, it's only real advantage is you can have worse range at 2B and get away with it..   The big difference at 3B is the speed the ball comes at you -- otherwise your arm angle and footwork is pretty much the same.    Hard to say what the issue was at 3B last year without having actually watched him play.   The stats say he was bad -- they don't really tell you why.  If they know the why and are working to fix it, then keeping him at 3B makes sense.   Guess we will find out.

[Inside Pitch]

of course they didn't

 

Would you make an offer on a Yugo if the guy said he wanted 10K for it?   We know the Angels and Freese had conversations, saying the Angels didn't make an offer means absolutely nothing.  Freese's "camp" needs to be fired for reading the market wrong.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[Troll Daddy]

Eppler traded Gott and committed two yrs/14M to Escobar to play 3rd ... why should he second guess his decision because Freese couldn't find a team to pay his price and had to settled for less.

oh wait, because you guys believe Escobar should now move to a unfamiliar position and signing Freese makes the team better? and Eppler should now back peddle on his original decision lol

If Eppler loses faith in his second base options he still can make a deal for a second baseman who knows the position first hand.

Keep the faith friends!

[arch stanton]

To me the only scenario for moving Escobar to 2B is if Cowart hits his way onto the big club since he's clearly a defensive upgrade at 3B. Any other option might as well try 2B and leave Escobar alone.

[Troll Daddy]

To me the only scenario for moving Escobar to 2B is if Cowart hits his way onto the big club since he's clearly a defensive upgrade at 3B. Any other option might as well try 2B and leave Escobar alone.

Something to consider ... if he's that good defensively then maybe he should learn second base as well. I prefer my two best infielders defensively to be playing up the middle.

[Ohtaniland]

Freese got a good deal from the Pirates.