san francisco raises smoking age to 21

[Jay]

they do?

well, the ones who went to college

[yvangelfan]

FREEDOM!!!!!!!

[nate]

AJ: "The government needs to pay for at least five years of weed lounging after college as well as tuition.  Let the professional workers pay for it."

[ten ocho recon scout]

Ocho, do you think that substance abuse and addiction would increase if drugs were legalized?

I read a statistic that the federal government spends about $15 billion a year on the "war on drugs," and state and local governments spend $25 billion. How about legalize it and use that $40 billion for better education, prevention, and support.

The other problem is that criminalizing drugs makes addiction a crime rather than a disease, which in turn makes treatment more difficult.

i think it would, only because the availability. Whereas i think most of us here would pass on crack if it was suddenly available, what i think you would see is kids stealing it from their parents and sharing it with other kids. I dont mean to sound like nancy reagan when i say that, but from my experience thats a super common way kids start smoking, smoking weed, etc

As far as criminalizing it, i think thats a good argument. Every state is different though, so different laws are on the books. But at least in california, for as long as ive been a cop, personal use possession was never really a crime. It was on the books as a felony, it would be dropped to a misdemeanor at the arraignment, and if you agreed to go to a diversion class there was no jail time (aside from the night of the arrest).

Now its a misdeamenor at the time of the arrest, its just a ticket with a court date, and the same class. It will take a few years to get real data on the effect of that. One thing i can say for sure is that in the year since prop 47 passed, propert crimes have jumped roughly 40 percent.and were seeing meth again fae more than we had in the last 5 or so years. Heroin has made a huge comeback too

Again, my problem isnt with people using drugs. I agree that its their choice to ruin their lives if they choose. My problem is the associated problems that come with it. Burglaries, ODs, the tweaked out guy being an a**hole and trying to fight, etc

[ten ocho recon scout]

What's the law now? You can only smoke in your apartment, under a blanket, with all the lights out?

if you have a medical rec card, its pretty much legal unless youre driving.

[nate]

Not really.  The DEA has authority over the states so if they wanted they could still arrest.  Even in the states where it is legalized.  It is BS.

[Tank]

i'm surprised there hasn't been a constitutional challenge to the state laws allowing the use of recreational pot. federal law trumps state law, and these states are violating federal law.

[Tank]

The federal government doesn't need a lawsuit, Tank. They can just enforce their laws. For whatever reason, probably because marijuana smoke cures cancer, they are not enforcing the federal drug laws.

If they did enforce the laws and someone arrested wanted to challenge federal preemption, claiming for some reason pot laws have been constitutionally given to the states, then they would have standing and they could make a constitutional challenge to the federal drug laws.

 

good explanation.

 

and you didn't even mention brown people once. impressive.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Not really. The DEA has authority over the states so if they wanted they could still arrest. Even in the states where it is legalized. It is BS.

just speakimg for california, ive never seen a DEA agent outside of regional task force, let alone one in the field making arrests.

[nate]

just speakimg for california, ive never seen a DEA agent outside of regional task force, let alone one in the field making arrests.

 

The DEA raided and shut down a bunch of medical pot shops a few years ago.  They also were closing bank accounts and seizing the money of pot shops.

[ten ocho recon scout]

The DEA raided and shut down a bunch of medical pot shops a few years ago. They also were closing bank accounts and seizing the money of pot shops.

thats different from what i was originally referring to. In that case, youre correct. I was referring to say if you or i was smoking a joint in public, and had our medical rec card. The local PD cant cite you (in california).

[Ray McKigney]

if you have a medical rec card, its pretty much legal unless youre driving.

 

I meant cigarettes.

[ABC]

thats different from what i was originally referring to. In that case, youre correct. I was referring to say if you or i was smoking a joint in public, and had our medical rec card. The local PD cant cite you (in california).

 

You should do an "Ask a Cop Anything" thread where you and anyone in LE can answer and give us tips to not get shot.

 

Seriously.

[HaloMagic]

You should do an "Ask a Cop Anything" thread where you and anyone in LE can answer and give us tips to not get shot.

Seriously.

Don't be black

[Angelsjunky]

i think it would, only because the availability. Whereas i think most of us here would pass on crack if it was suddenly available, what i think you would see is kids stealing it from their parents and sharing it with other kids. I dont mean to sound like nancy reagan when i say that, but from my experience thats a super common way kids start smoking, smoking weed, etc

As far as criminalizing it, i think thats a good argument. Every state is different though, so different laws are on the books. But at least in california, for as long as ive been a cop, personal use possession was never really a crime. It was on the books as a felony, it would be dropped to a misdemeanor at the arraignment, and if you agreed to go to a diversion class there was no jail time (aside from the night of the arrest).

Now its a misdeamenor at the time of the arrest, its just a ticket with a court date, and the same class. It will take a few years to get real data on the effect of that. One thing i can say for sure is that in the year since prop 47 passed, propert crimes have jumped roughly 40 percent.and were seeing meth again fae more than we had in the last 5 or so years. Heroin has made a huge comeback too

Again, my problem isnt with people using drugs. I agree that its their choice to ruin their lives if they choose. My problem is the associated problems that come with it. Burglaries, ODs, the tweaked out guy being an a**hole and trying to fight, etc

 

Sorry, missed this one from a couple days ago. I didn't know you are a cop, ocho. What exactly do you do?

 

Anyhow, I'm just not certain that if drugs were legalized, all of sudden everyone and their uncle would be saying, "Cool, crack is legal - let's give it a shot." As far as I can tell, the "War on Drugs" has done far more harm than good.

 

I really don't see marijuana as much of a problem. Actually, the only problem is that it is illegal still in most states, which fuels the drug trade and probably greatly increases crime, cartel activity, etc. But overall, the actual usage is far less dangerous than alcohol.

 

As for prop 47, where are you getting your numbers? From what I've read, there are mixed views on this - some say crime has decreased, some say increased. Overall the view seems to be that it will decrease crime over time. Anyhow, it seems that these sorts of measures are sometimes two steps forward, one step back.

[ten ocho recon scout]

You should do an "Ask a Cop Anything" thread where you and anyone in LE can answer and give us tips to not get shot.

Seriously.

in all honesty, beyond this thread, thats something that needs to happen for the public. IMO, its a huge fail to the public that there really is no formal education when it comes to the law. And theres whole slews of bad info out there about the laws.

It wouldnt solve "the" problem, but it would be a good start.

We make high school kids read classic books that bore them, but we dont teach them law, very little on economics and govt.

[arch stanton]

in all honesty, beyond this thread, thats something that needs to happen for the public. IMO, its a huge fail to the public that there really is no formal education when it comes to the law. And theres whole slews of bad info out there about the laws.

It wouldnt solve "the" problem, but it would be a good start.

We make high school kids read classic books that bore them, but we dont teach them law, very little on economics and govt.

Because you can't sell text books that way.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Sorry, missed this one from a couple days ago. I didn't know you are a cop, ocho. What exactly do you do?

Anyhow, I'm just not certain that if drugs were legalized, all of sudden everyone and their uncle would be saying, "Cool, crack is legal - let's give it a shot." As far as I can tell, the "War on Drugs" has done far more harm than good.

I really don't see marijuana as much of a problem. Actually, the only problem is that it is illegal still in most states, which fuels the drug trade and probably greatly increases crime, cartel activity, etc. But overall, the actual usage is far less dangerous than alcohol.

As for prop 47, where are you getting your numbers? From what I've read, there are mixed views on this - some say crime has decreased, some say increased. Overall the view seems to be that it will decrease crime over time. Anyhow, it seems that these sorts of measures are sometimes two steps forward, one step back.

meh, i think the less taboo something is, the more the on the fence people are willing to try it. Its funny, most gangsters that sell rock would never touch it...the crack generation made it social taboo. Theyll sell it but wont smoke it because they know what it does. Theyll smoke meth all day though. The difference being the label "crackhead" is negative, "he tweaks" is 'different' in that world though. (Whereas both are very bad).

As far as Marijuana, i totally agree. I think its archaic that its still illegal. Aside from the occasional dui/accident where someone was high (ves the hourly drunk dui/crash), i cant think of anytime ive gone on a call because someone was high. But again, hourly i go to fights, drunk in public, etc from drunk people. (And i say that as someone who doesnt smoke weed (obviously) but drinks regularly). Bottom line, its not us. Thats the lobbyist keeping it "illegal". In california, it went to general vote a few years ago and got shot down. Funny enough, it was the weed industry dumping the most money into keeping it regulated. They obviously dont want to lose business. Its gonna happen eventually though. And aside from the small towns, i dont think anyone has enforced it really for a few years. You have to be an asshole basically to get a ticket for it (same as most tickets unless youre stopped by a motor).

As far as prop 47, i can only base it on my city and the surrounding onets, but crime is WAY up. Not sure if youre familiar w it, it didnt just decriminalize drugs (at least from felony to misdemeanor), but it did the same for most property crimes.

It took a few months for people to test the wayers, but once word wss out, it got crazy. Everyone knows now you can break into cars and its a ticket. Break into a house or steal a car, its a night in jail and a court dat in 8 weeks. Fraud is now a misty. Possession of stolen property, misdemeanor. Grand theft went up to a K (from $400).

True story. Theres these 2 asshole brothers in our city. Been homeless tweakers for years. They literally burg every night and have for years. Theyre actually smart too, they know to not ever pass the threshold to grand theft. And when they get caught, they always opt to do full jail time instead of early release with probation ao that they cant be searched.

Anyway, one of them has a crew of like 5 other knuckleheads he crimes with. We could never catch them though. We see them walking around all night but they would disappear, and when we did catch them they never had stolen property on them, just their pipes. (Before we could arrest for it. Now that its a ricket everyones got one).

Maybe a month ago, we caught the main one and booked him (he had a warrant). He gets pissed, says because of that hes gonna terrorize rhe city when he gets out. Sure enough, we get slammed with auto burgs the week hes released.

So about 2 weeks ago we contacted one of his buddies who like the rest is never cooperstive. Anyways, this time, for whatever reason, he decides to talk. Basically, these little shits have been living in the sewar. That happens more than you think, but anyways, these guys rigged this pulley system (no bullshit) to lower down to the bowels of the sewer. Sondetectives went down there and hit this ridiculous jackpot of hundreds of cellphones, sunglasses, ipods, etc etc.

They had hooked up with this little crappy second hand store that all the border brothers shop at and the owner had been selling all their crap off for them, like consignment.

Anyway, even with that now, all those guys are gonna do mayyyybe 4 months on county. Maybe. The reaitt is, the slap on the wrist for crooks isnt gonna disuade them. 4 months in the county is like a small price compared to the several months of criming and smoking all night. Its frustrating to say the least.