Keith Law: "by far the worst (farm) system I've ever seen"

[UndertheHalo]

the thing thats incredible is how they've managed to not pull down anyone out of the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  There are so many baseball players in the draft.  Dipoto and his team failed miserably in that regard at least.  Losing the first round picks because of FA acquisitions makes the job a little harder because some of the obvious ones are off the table but lets be serious here.  The entire job of these scouts is to find talent.  Ive said it on here many times.  Jerry did some good things here and at the time I was sorry to see him go.  But as we move away from his tenure the overall job he did looks worse and worse.  Its going to continue to look worse probably.  Its not all on him for certain but like IP said by no means does he deserve to be absolved for this mess.  He probably played the biggest part in creating it.

[IEAngelsfan]

Actually, if you study Russian history, the Soviet Union had a less productive farm system.

Yeah, but at least they had 5 year plans.

[Inside Pitch]

Thanks. Wow, they sure made it seem like they were building something for the future over there.

Who was the elite pitching prospect they had that slept in a van at Walmart during ST last spring?

 

Daniel Norris?   He was with the Jays -- was recently traded to the Tigers for Price.  

[gurn67]

Barring injury, Simmons makes every pitcher on this roster better for the next 5 years. This guy has more impact on defense than any other player in the game right now. You can't pass up an opportunity like that.

[the dude abides]

Full list

 

1.Braves

2.Dodgers

3.Twins

4.Cubs

5.Brewers

6.Philies

7.Rockies

8.Pirates

9.Rangers

10.Redsox

11.Indians

12.Reds

13.Yankees

14.Rays

15.Nationals

16.Mets

17.Astros

18. A's

19.Cards

20.Padres

21.Giants

22.White Sox

23.Royals

24.Dbacks

25.Blue Jays

26.Tigers

27.Orioles

28.Mariners

29.Marlins

 

 

 

 

 

30.Angels

 

http://www.hngn.com/articles/177911/20160210/mlb-atlanta-braves-los-angeles-dodgers-sit-atop-espn-insider-keith-law-s-farm-system-rankings.htm

 

"The problem is, you have teams with a good farm system, then you have teams with a bad farm system.  Then there's 50 feet of shit... and then there's us."

[Mark68]

Despite the fact somebody has to be next to us in the rankings, the gap between us and number 29 in terms of talent levels must be gigantic.

I'm willing to wager that the gap between #29 and us > the gap between #1 and #29.

[Mark68]

How the hell are the Marlins so low? I thought they spent the last 3-4 years stockpiling minor league talent while dumping salary.

They did. Those guys are Marlins now.

 

I wouldn't worry. They'll trade Fernandez and get a shit-ton of prospects.

[Stradling]

It's funny that during our last draft everyone was killing the Angels for drafting Ward, and most of the other players drafted outside of our 2nd round pick, yet now people won't criticize Dipoto for his draft history.

[Oz27]

I'm willing to wager that the gap between #29 and us > the gap between #1 and #29.

It's not quite that bad but that isn't as ridiculous a statement as it should be either.

[Stradling]

We really need Ward and the high school kid we drafted 2nd last year to pan out

[nando714]

If we're not going all in while we have trout. Might as well trade a get a ton back.

[Troll Daddy]

Should of never traded Newcomb and Ellis for a light hitting defensive SS. We might of cracked the top 15 on the list.

[Stradling]

If we're not going all in while we have trout. Might as well trade a get a ton back.

Possibly in 2020, not in 2016. You can build a farm in 3-4 years.

[AngelsLakersFan]

JD fired a shit ton of scouts and brought in his guys -- he spent a lot of money..  See Baldoquin.   Some of you are acting like the Angels didn't spend their allotted draft signing budgets -- they did.  They just spent the money on the wrong guys.   

 

The Angels had one of the lowest draft allotments in MLB during Dipoto's tenure. Baldoquin is a weak attempt at trying to compensate for that by spending money on international players that they couldn't scout well enough. 

 

I'm not trying to wash Dipoto's hands of this mess but your crusade against him is not entirely fair. Dipoto did not do well with the restrictions placed upon him. Some of that is his fault, and some of that is because the restrictions are ridiculous in the first place.

[NrM]

You got that list of Dipoto draftees that project better than Cron, Grichuk, and Calhoun yet?     

WTF does his getting hired by someone have to do with anything that's being argued here?    Have you missed all the posts where I claim he wasn't a bad GM -- I do in fact call him a good GM in most cases.  But this farm system is as much on him as it is on Arte and anyone that wants to blame one and absolve the other is a fanboy in my book,

 

I've said it before..  I don't hate Jerry, but I hate the free pass he gets.   

 

I never said Dipoto was the perfect GM. My position has always been that he did a great job in the confines of Arte's meddling and obvious restrictions.

There's no sense in speculating what part of the blame Dipoto deserves. This is on Arte.

 

We both agree he was a good GM.

The difference is, you constantly place the blame on Dipoto, when Arte is the problem.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Poozy

[Troll Daddy]

Who needs a farm when there is free agency.

[Oz27]

Who needs a farm when there is free agency.

Probably a team who has signed nobody of consequence this year, 12 months after making Jeremy McBryde their only MLB free agent signing of the offseason.

[AngelsLakersFan]

 

With Weaver and Wilson coming off next year and Hamilton the next the Angels should be able to sign at least three quality free agents to restock the major league team while waiting for the minors to recover from signing Wilson, Pujols and Hamilton - those three signings represent the state of minor league system.

 

$60 or so million doesn't go as far as it used to. With raises to Trout, Calhoun, Richards, Pujols, Simmons and everyone else, but the time we free up that ~$60 million much of it will be gone. We can probably afford one elite free agent, maybe 2 pretty good ones, or three roughly average players.

[AngelsFaninGA]

I'm looking forward to 3-4 years from now when Eppler gets fired, the farm system is still ranked last (because it takes more than a year or two to revamp it as many seem to think), and we talk as much crap about Eppler as we do about DiPoto, and as we did about Reagins before him. The cycle repeats itself. It's funny to see the same people just shift the blame to the next GM. 

[NrM]

I'm looking forward to 3-4 years from now when Eppler gets fired, the farm system is still ranked last (because it takes more than a year or two to revamp it as many seem to think), and we talk as much crap about Eppler as we do about DiPoto, and as we did about Reagins before him. The cycle repeats itself. It's funny to see the same people just shift the blame to the next GM. 

 

Pretty much sums it up.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Poozy

[AngelsLakersFan]

It's funny that during our last draft everyone was killing the Angels for drafting Ward, and most of the other players drafted outside of our 2nd round pick, yet now people won't criticize Dipoto for his draft history.

 

To me the drafting of Ward was the first time the alarm went off and I started questioning just what this team was trying to accomplish in the draft. The selection was universally panned as a significant overreach, and unsurprisingly the team had no trouble signing him. This is a long way off from the days when we would draft guys like Buster Posey or Jared Weaver and worry about signing them later.

[eaterfan]

To me the drafting of Ward was the first time the alarm went off and I started questioning just what this team was trying to accomplish in the draft. The selection was universally panned as a significant overreach, and unsurprisingly the team had no trouble signing him. This is a long way off from the days when we would draft guys like Buster Posey or Jared Weaver and worry about signing them later.

The rules were different back then. Getting a guy who will sign for under slot in the first round allows you to reach in every successive round. It's not fair to compare behavior under the two different draft formats because the optimal strategy has changed.

But even were it not the case the Angels were notoriously cheap in the draft under Arte. They didn't regularly draft guys they didn't think they could sign. And when they did draft them they rarely signed them. They weren't doing what the Yankees and Red Sox were doing in that respect and the system stayed falling behind those clubs.

[Angel Oracle]

If Arte continues to not believe in developing players to keep a MLB team solid, and continues as well to not sign ANY QUALITY FAs anymore, that can only spell doom by 4 years from now.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

The Angels had one of the lowest draft allotments in MLB during Dipoto's tenure. Baldoquin is a weak attempt at trying to compensate for that by spending money on international players that they couldn't scout well enough. 

 

I'm not trying to wash Dipoto's hands of this mess but your crusade against him is not entirely fair. Dipoto did not do well with the restrictions placed upon him. Some of that is his fault, and some of that is because the restrictions are ridiculous in the first place.

 

Every team plays with the same restrictions....    It's universally unfair.  

 

Arte deserves blame for having cost Jerry three picks and the dollar allotments associated with those picks.  The rest is on JD.

 

I'm looking forward to 3-4 years from now when Eppler gets fired, the farm system is still ranked last (because it takes more than a year or two to revamp it as many seem to think), and we talk as much crap about Eppler as we do about DiPoto, and as we did about Reagins before him. The cycle repeats itself. It's funny to see the same people just shift the blame to the next GM. 

 

If he drafts as poorly as JD did, he will deserve whatever criticism is thrown his way.   JD's regime had 117 picks over four years, it's been longer than one or two years.

 

BTW the narrative that all the same people bitching about the farm post JD were also bitching about it post Reagins doesn't really fly...   There were many of us arguing that the system had more talent than it was being credited for back then, whereas many people here have argued that the farm was "much improved" until very very recently.

 

 

To me the drafting of Ward was the first time the alarm went off and I started questioning just what this team was trying to accomplish in the draft. The selection was universally panned as a significant overreach, and unsurprisingly the team had no trouble signing him. This is a long way off from the days when we would draft guys like Buster Posey or Jared Weaver and worry about signing them later.

 

So, here I've been accused of ripping on JD unfairly and yet I'm going to defend that move.   That was all about being able to spend more on their second pick and less about reaching on their first in my eyes...   I ike Jones.  To be honest, high floor low ceiling on bats doesn't bug me all that much, particularly at catcher where the success rate for HS catchers is the lowest of all the positions.   It's also why I don't fault JD and his draft team for the Hunter Green prick -- that was a classic high risk high reward pick.    

Edited February 11, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[AngelsLakersFan]

The rules were different back then. Getting a guy who will sign for under slot in the first round allows you to reach in every successive round. It's not fair to compare behavior under the two different draft formats because the optimal strategy has changed.

But even were it not the case the Angels were notoriously cheap in the draft under Arte. They didn't regularly draft guys they didn't think they could sign. And when they did draft them they rarely signed them. They weren't doing what the Yankees and Red Sox were doing in that respect and the system stayed falling behind those clubs.

 

You are absolutely right. It's not a fair comparison but the consistent thing is that we are penny pinching. Our 'Yankees of the West' plan has mostly be a facade, focused on spending big money on star players at the expense of long term investment in the organization.