So I'm pretty sure the Angels will be going after Heyward

[Ohtaniland]

I'm not sure what type of speed you're referring to ... but Cespedes may due. He's a little faster than Pujols.

Cespedes is a true left fielder and he would keep Kole Calhoun in RF......the CALZONE.

[Stradling]

Cespedes is a true left fielder and he would keep Kole Calhoun in RF......the CALZONE.

But he gets paid a lot and that is bad, right?

[Ohtaniland]

But he gets paid a lot and that is bad, right?

Would like to sign him but yes it would require overpaying him to get him.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Hunter is actually a fair comp. Up to age 31 Hunters line was .271/.324/.469/.793 while Gordon is currently .269/.348/.435/.783. A little more power numbers from Hunter while a better on base percentage for Gordon. Right now the Angels need a lead off hitter badly, Gordon just may fill that role. A 5/$90 contract would be similar to Hunters.

 

But Torri Hunter was a gold glove center fielder. I don't have the confidence in Gordon aging nearly as well as Torii did.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I think I just convinced myself that we really need to get this guy.  

 

Finally.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned ( & I apologize if someone has) the similarities of Heyward and Garret Anderson.

Take a look at Garrett's #'s before he entered his prime and how he developed HR power during this time. Between the ages of 26-32, his hr's really escalated.

 http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXaXXanderga01-bat.shtml&t=all_standard_batting

I can see Heyward following the same path, especially as he matures as a hitter.

 

They are similar style players except Garret's biggest weakness is one of Heyward's biggest strengths. Plus Heyward is a much better defender, not to take anything away from GA.

[Blarg]

But Torri Hunter was a gold glove center fielder. I don't have the confidence in Gordon aging nearly as well as Torii did.

 

Gordon has 4 Gold Gloves and knows how to play left field.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Gordon has 4 Gold Gloves and knows how to play left field.

 

He does. And at the end of Tori's contract he had to slide over to play RF. Where does Gordon slide over to?

[marcosantinia12]

The Angels need impact talent, not guys who provide only minor upgrades. They need a rotation anchor, a second baseman, an outfielder, a bullpen arm, and possibly a third baseman.

My plan would cost a fortune, but the team would be good:

1. Sign Price or Greinke ($24-27 mil AV)

2. Sign Cespedes, Gordon, Hayward or Upton ($18-25 mil AV)

3. Sign Zobrist, Kendrick or Murphy ($12-17 mil AV)

4. Sign pen arm ($4-5 mil AV)

5. Trade Santiago for Prado (additional $3 mil in AV)

Total cost would be $60-75 mil in annual value. We'd go over the cap the next two years, but could possibly get back under after that. We'd have a sick team.

I dissagre. You're wanting to essentially build an all-star team through finances, although I'd gladly take it, it's not necessary. Do we need an jmpact player? Probably, if we want to get far into the post season. Do we need MULTIPLE impact players? Not necessarily.

We missed the playoffs by one game last year.  ONE game, with a team with several questions. Simply getting an adequate left fielder improves the team next year. The thing is that we should expect regression from some players. Lets see...

Angels WAR by positions [in need of improvement] in 2015:

LF : 0.4

3B : 0.8

2B: 1.7

RP: 1.4

We also got low values from 1B and DH, but I will omit those because whether we like it or not we have to live with Pujols and I think Cron has a higher likely hood to improve than decline. 

From those positions of need however, lets say we had a moderate off season with a big signing and conservative acquisitions. 

LF : Heyward  = 6.0 WAR

3B: Prado = 3.1 WAR (I'd also expect Cowart to boost this value up due to his defense if he is used accordingly)

2B: Enrique Hernandez = 1.7 WAR (Keep in mind, he did so in 76 games) + Pennington (he had negative value, but that comes from his offense. His defensive value is positive so if he is used as a defensive replacement/utility man he will boost the value higher as well)

RP: Tony Sipp = 1.0 + Ryan Madson = 0.9

This results in a total of 8.4 wins gained. Lets go ahead and account for the regression that we will probably see for some players and wend up at maybe 6.3-6.6 wins. Then again we can see improvement by other players plus counting for Cowart and Pennington's presence in the defensive department I think it is safe to say we increase 5.8-6.8 total wins... And that's being extra-reasonable. 

By the way, our RP would go from a WAR of 1.4 to 3.3 from one of the lowest value in the majors to being in the mid-top pack. It makes a huge difference. 

I think this is a more conservative and future conscious approach. It improves the team substantially- in theory we go from 85 to 90/92 wins which should be enough to get us in the playoffs. After that, we all know its a crap shoot. This allows for some breathing works in the case that something goes unplanned (someone doesn't perform at the level of their contract, injury, early decline etc.) with enough resources to fix these issues if they do come up. 

 

[totdprods]

Marco, I'd be very happy if we went that route.

Is Enrique Hernandez available though?

[ten ocho recon scout]

Marcosantinia12 is like a pitching prospect that has plus velocity and a decent change up. The only thing he needs to be a star is a third plus pitch.

What i mean is, you only need to add some off color boner jokes or well timed GIFS to turn into a star here. I think you can do it.

[Second Base]

If you're using WAR as your basis for your support for Heyward, keep in mind, a HUGE chunk of that is defense. While a good defender in LF is a nice thing to have, the Angels need more of a slugger out there in LF, not a table setter. We already have a good OF, there's no reason to move Calhoun and we won't be able to find a 2B or 3B slugger, period.

Jason Heyward is VERY good, but he's not really a fit. Then again, I didn't think and still don't think we needed a light hitting defensive specialist at SS when we already have Aybar.

[nikkachez]

I think the only real sluggers on the market are Davis and Cespedes, Upton is a little more well-rounded than those guys. Basically, I don't think the Angels NEED a slugger, just good players at as many positions as possible. Heyward and Hwang would/could solidify the outfield and third base. Hwang would also add some pop in the middle/lower part of the order along with Cron. You already have Trout, Calhoun, hopefully a healthy Pujols slugging in the middle, and hopefully a more polished CJ Cron, I don't think power is essential. I still also like the idea of a left handed bat to add to the bench, Morneau or Jaso could make sense depending on their asking price. Cunningham could be a stopgap until Hinshaw is ready to be the fourth outfielder. 

[ABC]

I dissagre. You're wanting to essentially build an all-star team through finances, although I'd gladly take it, it's not necessary. Do we need an jmpact player? Probably, if we want to get far into the post season. Do we need MULTIPLE impact players? Not necessarily.

We missed the playoffs by one game last year.  ONE game, with a team with several questions. Simply getting an adequate left fielder improves the team next year. The thing is that we should expect regression from some players. Lets see...

Angels WAR by positions [in need of improvement] in 2015:

LF : 0.4

3B : 0.8

2B: 1.7

RP: 1.4

We also got low values from 1B and DH, but I will omit those because whether we like it or not we have to live with Pujols and I think Cron has a higher likely hood to improve than decline. 

From those positions of need however, lets say we had a moderate off season with a big signing and conservative acquisitions. 

LF : Heyward  = 6.0 WAR

3B: Prado = 3.1 WAR (I'd also expect Cowart to boost this value up due to his defense if he is used accordingly)

2B: Enrique Hernandez = 1.7 WAR (Keep in mind, he did so in 76 games) + Pennington (he had negative value, but that comes from his offense. His defensive value is positive so if he is used as a defensive replacement/utility man he will boost the value higher as well)

RP: Tony Sipp = 1.0 + Ryan Madson = 0.9

This results in a total of 8.4 wins gained. Lets go ahead and account for the regression that we will probably see for some players and wend up at maybe 6.3-6.6 wins. Then again we can see improvement by other players plus counting for Cowart and Pennington's presence in the defensive department I think it is safe to say we increase 5.8-6.8 total wins... And that's being extra-reasonable. 

By the way, our RP would go from a WAR of 1.4 to 3.3 from one of the lowest value in the majors to being in the mid-top pack. It makes a huge difference. 

I think this is a more conservative and future conscious approach. It improves the team substantially- in theory we go from 85 to 90/92 wins which should be enough to get us in the playoffs. After that, we all know its a crap shoot. This allows for some breathing works in the case that something goes unplanned (someone doesn't perform at the level of their contract, injury, early decline etc.) with enough resources to fix these issues if they do come up. 

 

Interesting analysis however you leaning on WAR too heavily. Reducing players and needs to one stat is an unsophisticated method to build a team. It can get the conversation going but it will get you into trouble and then you're fired and a punchline. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

If you're using WAR as your basis for your support for Heyward, keep in mind, a HUGE chunk of that is defense. While a good defender in LF is a nice thing to have, the Angels need more of a slugger out there in LF, not a table setter. We already have a good OF, there's no reason to move Calhoun and we won't be able to find a 2B or 3B slugger, period.

Jason Heyward is VERY good, but he's not really a fit. Then again, I didn't think and still don't think we needed a light hitting defensive specialist at SS when we already have Aybar.

This is exactly my take. Then again, heyward is good enough that hes a boost to this team regardless of what his skill is. But agree that id prefer more of a power bat, and that i would have preferred to stay w aybar and sign a lesser than simmons SS than to have traded what little we have for him.

Oh well, still can end up being great moves. Fingers crossed.

[Docwaukee]

If they are going to pay for anything, it should be obp.  Not hrs or even the ability to slug.  We've actually got a decent amount of that between Trout, Calhoun, Pujols and Cron already.  

 

We actually do need table setters.   

[tdawg87]

If they are going to pay for anything, it should be obp. Not hrs or even the ability to slug. We've actually got a decent amount of that between Trout, Calhoun, Pujols and Cron already.

We actually do need table setters.

People keep forgetting Calhoun. He's a guy with 25+ HR power who hits behind Trout and Pujols if they get Heyward.

Trout IS our run producer. Except he had nobody to drive in this year.

[ukyah]

If they are going to pay for anything, it should be obp.  Not hrs or even the ability to slug.  We've actually got a decent amount of that between Trout, Calhoun, Pujols and Cron already.  

 

We actually do need table setters.   

 

 

agree completely. it seemed to me last year that the only way the angels could score was on a homerun. personally, i loathe that offense because most times they're going to get run out of the playoffs by teams that pitch and catch amazingly well and can manufacture runs. the truth is, power shows up in the postseason anyways. look at year to year and there's always a dude like david murphy killing it.

Edited November 25, 2015 by ukyah

[marcosantinia12]

Marco, I'd be very happy if we went that route.

Is Enrique Hernandez available though?

I wish he was but I don't know... Maybe CJ (and 10 mil of his salary) plus two pitching prospects. We might as well completely gut the farm (or whatever is left of it) for the right pieces since we are already incredibly thin in that department. I don't think Hernandez is really the one to command high end prospects or inredible talent but then again CJ only has one year so I dont think they do it for just him. Maybe if we threw in Smith and Bedrosian they budge, considering they are able to fill their rotation for 2015 with CJ, and the 4/5 spot with Smith going forward and have plenty of resources to shop for a 2nd basemen to replace Hernandez. He is 24 and controlled through 2020 putting up very solid numbers already so I'd be willing to give them that seeing that he is a long term investment. Of course, we would have to shop for an top/mid-rotation arm in the FA market if this happened.

Another option is Asdrubal Cabrera. He had a WAR of 2.2 last year, although he's more of a 1.5 win guy throughout his career and going forward. Low price though, and he'd definitely be more of a sure thing than Gio.

[ettin]

People keep forgetting Calhoun. He's a guy with 25+ HR power who hits behind Trout and Pujols if they get Heyward.

Trout IS our run producer. Except he had nobody to drive in this year.

This becomes abundantly clear in Part VIII of the Primer Series which should be out sometime soon.... may be delayed because Chuck and Dave might already be preoccupied with Thanksgiving but take a look at the ISO chart Calhoun is on and it confirms what tdawg has said. Edited November 25, 2015 by ettin

[Mark68]

If you're using WAR as your basis for your support for Heyward, keep in mind, a HUGE chunk of that is defense. While a good defender in LF is a nice thing to have, the Angels need more of a slugger out there in LF, not a table setter. We already have a good OF, there's no reason to move Calhoun and we won't be able to find a 2B or 3B slugger, period.

Jason Heyward is VERY good, but he's not really a fit. Then again, I didn't think and still don't think we needed a light hitting defensive specialist at SS when we already have Aybar.

Not sure how Heyward is not a fit. He's a lefty who gets on base and is a great fielder.

 

Yes, he's going to command a long-term contract for a lot of money, possibly with an opt out, and yes, he's going to require losing a draft pick (a bigger deal as far as I'm concerned), but at 26, he's still entering his prime and he will lengthen the lineup. He will give us arguably one of the best outfields in baseball, both at the plate and in the field.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Mark68

[marcosantinia12]

Marcosantinia12 is like a pitching prospect that has plus velocity and a decent change up. The only thing he needs to be a star is a third plus pitch.

What i mean is, you only need to add some off color boner jokes or well timed GIFS to turn into a star here. I think you can do it.

I'll keep that in mind forsure hahaha

And as for those who think that WAR isn't the greatest measurement on evaluating a player I completely agree. 

I just used that statistic because it provides a general idea of the value of each player and of the team as hole. Of course, even if Heyward and Cespedes have a similar WAR values, they would have completely different impacts of a team as one is a set up guy and one is a run producer.

You can have a team of very [WAR] valuable players, but if they are all essentially slugger then it wont equate to the success of a well distributed value team where you have the sluggers, the contact hitters, the OBP guys, good overall defense, etc. 

It's a big reason why I am a fan of Heyward coming to the Angels, because we already have two 40HR guys, yet our second highest obp is .318 from a player with lots of sustainability questions in Gio, followed by Calhoun at .308. I think that if we are able to pick up two table setters (one being Heyward) and move Calhoun to the 5 spot where he belongs followed by Cron, the lineup suddenly becomes very strong. Not to mention the other skills and upside that Heyward brings.

Upton has also been growing on me however for a couple of reasons. First off, we don't know how longer Pujols will keep hitting home runs and if he drops off soon we would lack a big bat presence aside from Trout. Calhoun is a run producer, but I see him as the prototypical 5 hitter as opposed to a big bat. Secondly, run-producers like Upton are much more rarely available than table setters. If we can get two legit table setters like Escobar (.375 obp), Hernandez (.346 obp), Holt (.349 obp), etc. then Upton is a great consolation price for missing out on Heyward IMO.

[Angel Oracle]

From what I remember, Kike Hernandez was a key sparkplug when in the Dogs lineup (OPS of .837 bearing that out).

However, his defensive WAR was -0.2.

[tdawg87]

I want a player named Kike on the team.

[Mark68]

I want a player named Kike on the team.

Yeah, but you'd pronounce it wrong.