So I'm pretty sure the Angels will be going after Heyward

[QuinlansMinion]

I think this is sorta what they're gonna go for. Cowart would be the cheaper alternative if they allocate all the money elsewhere, maybe sign Uribe to at least platoon with him. Heyward or Gordon for left, trade what little trade assets the team has for a second baseman with a good glove, get a veteran backup catcher, a solid utility infielder, and Sipp/Soria. Luxuries, in my opinion, would be an ace or another option at DH. 

Why dont we just sign everyone while were at it.  

[Angel Oracle]

Phillips turning 35 in 2016 concerns me, although Zobrist isn't much younger.   

[Chuck]

Phillips turning 35 in 2016 concerns me, although Zobrist isn't much younger.   

 

Phillips is a much better 2B defensively. Zobrist more of an OBP guy. 

[totdprods]

Sounds like the Royals are going hard after Zobrist too. His newborn daughter's middle name wound up being 'Royal'....

I think KC may actually pony up to keep him and let Gordon go.

[Stradling]

I would take either Zobrist or Gordon?

[Angel Oracle]

That is a good point about preferring defense (Phillips) or offense (Zobrist).

The contract for Phillips only has 2 years to go for $27 million total, while Zobrist figures to sign for at least 3 years with an option year for maybe as much as $15 million/season.

 

2B is probably the one position the Halos could go older at. 

 

Question #1:

What would it take to get Phillips in a trade?

 

Question #2:

Is having the lefty hitting, gap hitting, OBP strong, decent defending Zobrist better in the long run?

 

Question #3:

How do Sherman Johnson and Andrew Daniel project as potential future MLB 2B men?

Edited November 16, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Jim]

he just came on here, dropped a grenade and left. At least ive stuck around and made wiener jokes and called people racist.

(But that dude just passed me up. I think hes eppler)

Haha, keep fighting the good fight my man, and the wiener jokes. Your hard work is not going unnoticed.

[OregonLAA]

Philips is a salary dump for the Reds. It would take close to nothing unless they paid a little

[Corona]

I like heyward but he's going to get stupid money, I just can't justify paying a 260-270 15 hr hitter around 200 mill. Contracts these days are nuts.

[Troutstanding]

I like heyward but he's going to get stupid money, I just can't justify paying a 260-270 15 hr hitter around 200 mill. Contracts these days are nuts.

There's more to (his) value than (his) BA and home run totals. To name a few, he's very young, possesses excellent defensive skills, and gets on base at an outstanding rate. 

[Corona]

There's more to (his) value than (his) BA and home run totals. To name a few, he's very young, possesses excellent defensive skills, and gets on base at an outstanding rate.

That's still an absurd amount of money, for 200 mil you should be looking at an mvp caliber player. Guys like Kevin keirmaier play great defense and he won't get 1/4th of that money.

[tomsred]

There's more to (his) value than (his) BA and home run totals. To name a few, he's very young, possesses excellent defensive skills, and gets on base at an outstanding rate. 

 

He's Mike Trout?  I don't think so, he doesn't play CF.  What are his other weaknesses?

[Troutstanding]

That's still an absurd amount of money, for 200 mil you should be looking at an mvp caliber player. Guys like Kevin keirmaier play great defense and he won't get 1/4th of that money.

$200 mil doesn't buy you MVP caliber any more. 

Keirmaier isn't a valid comparison to Heyward for a multitude of reasons. 

[Troutstanding]

He's Mike Trout?  I don't think so, he doesn't play CF.  What are his other weaknesses?

I'm not sure why we would even want him... he hasn't even had a 7.0 WAR season yet. Trout's been above that every season. 

[Corona]

$200 mil doesn't buy you MVP caliber any more.

Keirmaier isn't a valid comparison to Heyward for a multitude of reasons.

I'm using keirmaier as an example mainly because it shows that defense comes a lot cheaper than offense. Nobody drops big money on guys because they play defense. If you pay 200 mil you should be getting an offensive phenom not an above average offensive player. I wouldn't be surprised either if his numbers were to dip a bit leaving a club that somehow gets the best out of their players. Plus you have to consider you're moving a GG fielder(Calhoun) out of right and into left. How much better does the defense really get with calhoun/trout/heyward as opposed to leaving Calhoun in right and possibly signing cespedes, who will also be about 60 million dollars cheaper.

I like heyward he's a good player and would love to have him, just not for 200 million.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Corona

[Hubs]

Kiermaier is going into his third year.

 

Whether he's comparable or not is irrelevant because he's under club control for four more seasons. One at or near the league minimum and three at the arbitration numbers. Both Upton and Heyward are FA, having started their major league careers at a much, much younger age. Keirmaier is six months younger than Heyward, but Heyward debuted at 20, while Kiermaier was 24 before he saw his first action.

 

I can't remember a young FA like Heyward. Trout certainly would be there, but they locked him up. Stanton was older before he got locked up. Manny Ramirez was 28? Maybe A-Rod?

[Corona]

It is interesting that heyward is a FA at such a young age. Makes you wonder what trout would get if he were a FA today. The Yankees would probably throw 400 at him.

[Adam]

Eppler seems like the type of dude who would have a lurker account on here. 

[Troutstanding]

I'm using keirmaier as an example mainly because it shows that defense comes a lot cheaper than offense. Nobody drops big money on guys because they play defense. If you pay 200 mil you should be getting an offensive phenom not an above average offensive player. I wouldn't be surprised either if his numbers were to dip a bit leaving a club that somehow gets the best out of their players. Plus you have to consider you're moving a GG fielder(Calhoun) out of right and into left. How much better does the defense really get with calhoun/trout/heyward as opposed to leaving Calhoun in right and possibly signing cespedes, who will also be about 60 million dollars cheaper.

I like heyward he's a good player and would love to have him, just not for 200 million.

If you want to use a more appropriate comparison than Keirmaier, be my guest. A run saved is just as valuable as a run scored, though. Defense is valuable. If you don't feel the same way then I imagine you aren't too pleased about the acquisition of Aldrelton Simmons.

 

Heyward played for the Braves for the first 5 of 6 seasons of his career. 

 

I'll concede that moving Calhoun to LF is less than ideal but I think he'd do fine. That's something I would think the Angels would explore with Calhoun prior to signing Heyward but I don't know. Who's saying he's going to get $200 million anyway? I thought the estimates were closer to $160 million? 

 

Cespedes is an option, too. Personally I'm not a big fan of Cespedes but if the Angels signed him he would obviously be a major upgrade, too. 

[Troutstanding]

Kiermaier is going into his third year.

That's one big reason why not's not a valid comparison. 

 

Whether he's comparable or not is irrelevant because he's under club control for four more seasons. 

He was made relevant to the discussion when he was brought up as reasoning for Heyward being overvalued. 

[Angel Oracle]

At this rate, Kiermaier will get stupid money in 4 years.

[Corona]

The upgrade defensively seems a little overblown imo largely because we already have a GG in right field. By having Heyward in right your defense in RF is just about the same as it would be with Calhoun there still. While putting Calhoun in left field is barely an upgrade over someone like Cespedes, Upton or Gordon. The difference those players bring to the plate would provide a more marginal upgrade than what Heyward brings offensively imo. As for his contract it seems like he'll get something around 8-10/160-200. 

 

 

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-sabermetrics-analysis/2015/10/26/9610954/st-louis-cardinals-free-agents-what-might-jason-heywards-contract-look-like

[Corona]

At this rate, Kiermaier will get stupid money in 4 years.

 

I bet Franklin Gutierrez wishes he were a FA today. 

[Troutstanding]

The upgrade defensively seems a little overblown imo largely because we already have a GG in right field. By having Heyward in right your defense in RF is just about the same as it would be with Calhoun there still. While putting Calhoun in left field is barely an upgrade over someone like Cespedes, Upton or Gordon. The difference those players bring to the plate would provide a more marginal upgrade than what Heyward brings offensively imo. As for his contract it seems like he'll get something around 8-10/160-200. 

 

 

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-sabermetrics-analysis/2015/10/26/9610954/st-louis-cardinals-free-agents-what-might-jason-heywards-contract-look-like

What makes you think that Calhoun would suffer so greatly by moving to left field? In any case Heyward is a better defender than Calhoun. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

The upgrade defensively seems a little overblown imo largely because we already have a GG in right field. By having Heyward in right your defense in RF is just about the same as it would be with Calhoun there still. While putting Calhoun in left field is barely an upgrade over someone like Cespedes, Upton or Gordon. The difference those players bring to the plate would provide a more marginal upgrade than what Heyward brings offensively imo. As for his contract it seems like he'll get something around 8-10/160-200. 

 

 

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-sabermetrics-analysis/2015/10/26/9610954/st-louis-cardinals-free-agents-what-might-jason-heywards-contract-look-like

 

I'll check that article out later when I get home, but look at this:

 

Calhoun 2015: 6 DRS, 13.8 UZR, 

Heyward 2015: 22 DRS, 20.2 UZR

 

Now keep in mind that Heyward has done this for years.  Calhoun had his best year last year by far. In a park as big as the Angels have I wouldn't underestimate the value of adding Heyward.  Also consider the fact that for the Angels this year, RF had only about 40 more put outs than LF.  And that was WITH the terrible fielding the Angels got from LF and the GG fielding from RF.  Meaning Calhoun got to more balls than average and the LF platoon got to less than they should have.  Meaning the total chances they got were basically even.  Meaning the value between LF and RF isn't as great as some might perceive it to be.  

 

In addition to all of this your valuation of Heyward's offense is way off.  According to fangraphs, Heyward's offense was ranked 30th this year.  That means if all players were distributed equally he would still be the best hitter on one team and would be the second best hitter on every other team.  This is all coming from a guy who just played his age 25 season.   How many players have their best seasons that young??  Not very many.  If they did we wouldn't talk about players primes.  He has likely not even come close to what he is truly capable of doing with the bat.  In one of my previous posts I showed his trends.  If you go by career numbers only and don't factor in age or other factors then you end up signing guys like Pujols, Hamilton, Wells, etc.  You want to pay for (and actually get) the best years of someones career?  Here is the chance.

Edited November 17, 2015 by AngelsFanSince86