Angels expected to look for a big bat

[Jobu]

Can I be the first to say:

"It's not my money!"

[AngelsFanSince86]

People talk about Heyward's youth, but Cespedes has probably not played that many more games than Heyward (between Cuba and MLB).

Isn't the Cuban league season a significantly shorter one than MLB's season?

 

Get Cespedes AND an OBP guy for 2B or 3B, and the lineup will be that much better in 2016.

Assuming the Ghostly one can actually hit MLB pitching with RISP, like he USED to do.

 

You have some good points and his best years could very well be ahead of him, but like I said just above:  A players prime has mostly to do with his body.  Baseball is not exactly a rough sport.  Years of playing does not wear down a player that much until they get into their mid to late 30's after decades of playing, but mostly because their body just isn't in its prime anymore.  Its not like if Trout barely played his whole life and then started his career at 32 he would have the same career arc.  Wear and tear/innings played are significantly more applicable to pitchers because their whole career is centered around one motion.

 

Edit:  Take Pujols for example.  His decline and sketchy health the past few years are mainly due to his body type and his body just declining.  Hundreds of players have played just as much as he has and didn't decline as rapidly as he has.  If they had then his decline wouldn't have been so shocking to everyone.  The guy played 1B his whole career.  Not exactly the most physically demanding position.  He is just either older than he says he is or he just has bad genetics in terms of longevity.

Edited October 14, 2015 by AngelsFanSince86

[AngelsFanSince86]

I think most people agree that Heyward is better than Fowler, but he is also going to cost a ton more money.  The Angels have a lot of holes to fill and if they sign Heyward, there is less of a chance they can fill those holes.  Heyward may cost 25 million a year and Fowler at the most would cost 15 million a year.  Signing Fowler would mean being able to to sign Zobrist/Murphy for 2B too.

 

Yeah and I stated I understood that.  If signing Heyward means not filling the other holes with solid players then I am definitely against it.  My point is that Arte should be going for him hard and it should have no bearing on the other decisions.  This is probably going to be the best FA year in terms of what the Angels need and what is available for many years.  Not taking full advantage would just be stupid given we have Trout.  Its not my money so easier said than done.  But at some point Arte is going to have to bite the bullet and this is the perfect time to do so.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Nice response AF86. Wonder if i still have time to delete my post and pretend i dont know why youre quoting me

[QuinlansMinion]

The decade long search for a big bat continues

[beatlesrule]

Do people honestly expect a big bat with help this team win the World Series?  This "big bat" will be hitting behind Pujols so why does it even matter?  As long as Scioscia is running things, it doesn't matter what player Arte signs.

[Stradling]

Do people honestly expect a big bat with help this team win the World Series? This "big bat" will be hitting behind Pujols so why does it even matter? As long as Scioscia is running things, it doesn't matter what player Arte signs.

Yep, just like Scioscia will never bat Albert lower than third as long as he is the manager. Remember that?

[QuinlansMinion]

Do people honestly expect a big bat with help this team win the World Series?  This "big bat" will be hitting behind Pujols so why does it even matter?  As long as Scioscia is running things, it doesn't matter what player Arte signs.

Id also like to add all wed be doing is paying a guy for his previous work, who is probably entering or in his 30's and beginning his decline.

 

You want offense these days, you had best develop it yourself and get the prime years.  The problem is, I dont think this org. is capable of doing that.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

^thats something ive been notocing for a while. Weve had a few like morales, trout, howie, naps etc. (Trout doesnt count) Maybe its just me because i watch this team far more than anything, but it at least feels like we dont develop bats. Which is weird because we used to do ot well but were bad at pitching.

Is the problem our draft? Scouting? Development? All 3?

[Stradling]

Id also like to add all wed be doing is paying a guy for his previous work, who is probably entering or in his 30's and beginning his decline.

You want offense these days, you had best develop it yourself and get the prime years. The problem is, I dont think this org. is capable of doing that.

I agree with you that we have been incapable of developing talent for a very long time. I don't blame it on losing first round picks, I blame it on drafting, scouting and player develoopment in the minors. I know you know this but EVERY time you sign a free agent you are signing him based on his previous work. The problem with free agency is that it only takes one owner to over pay a guy each year to ruin it for the rest of the teams. The Angels wanted a marquee player in Albert and got burned on the deal. Then they doubled down with Hamilton, thinking a left handed bat to protect Albert would be a good thing. The Angels, Dodgers, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox are all very guilty of over paying players, which then sets the bar for the rest of that free agent class and the following classes.

[beatlesrule]

Yep, just like Scioscia will never bat Albert lower than third as long as he is the manager. Remember that?

 

I remember the majority said 4th and so far, they are right.

[Stradling]

I remember the majority said 4th and so far, they are right.

No, the majority said third because he hadn't hit below third in his first 3 seasons with the Angels.

[beatlesrule]

I assume you are okay with him hitting 4th as you are a big Scioscia defender. The big bat would hit 5th. If it took 3 years to move Pujols down 1 spot, it should be another 3 before he's moved again. If you think that will be good baseball to watch, more power to you.

[Stradling]

I assume you are okay with him hitting 4th as you are a big Scioscia defender. The big bat would hit 5th. If it took 3 years to move Pujols down 1 spot, it should be another 3 before he's moved again. If you think that will be good baseball to watch, more power to you.

With the team we had this year yes I was fine with it. I will also be fine with it until we have people that are better at baseball than he is. I am not as much of a Scioscia defender than I am a common sense defender. If it were up to me I would sign OBP guys to hit in front of Trout, who would bat third, Calhoun would bat fourth, and albert fifth. If we go with Cespedes, I would bat him fourth and Albert fifth. If we were to trade for Longoria I would bat him third, Albert fourth and Trout second. So I guess to answer your question, unless we sign multiple guys that can get on base or have lots of power then my ideal spot for Albert is fifth. Although hitting .250 and hitting 40 home runs sounds like your typical clean up hitter.

[VariousCrap]

Yeah and I stated I understood that.  If signing Heyward means not filling the other holes with solid players then I am definitely against it.  My point is that Arte should be going for him hard and it should have no bearing on the other decisions.  This is probably going to be the best FA year in terms of what the Angels need and what is available for many years.  Not taking full advantage would just be stupid given we have Trout.  Its not my money so easier said than done.  But at some point Arte is going to have to bite the bullet and this is the perfect time to do so.

 

 

I completely agree that this crop of free agents is good enough to fill all the holes the Angels have.  The talent is available and they need to spend wisely to fill them all.  That is why I think it is more wise for the Angels to focus on the "second-tier" players that are still very good, but won't cost as much as the "elite" players will.

[AngelsFanSince86]

Nice response AF86. Wonder if i still have time to delete my post and pretend i dont know why youre quoting me

 

hahaha I understand the resistance to the thought because its still a risk and you are paying for a hypothetical.  Its easier to pay for whats already happened then it is for what might happen because in the first scenario you know the player can produce at a certain level.  The thing is, with those players at BEST you get a couple years of their current production followed by decline.  With a 26 year old, you have a very good chance of getting 4-5 years of production above any other season they have produced.  There is a risk for both, but the reward for the younger player is much greater.  The Angels are in a bad position because they have the best player in baseball and a farm system that is year away from producing impact position players.  To compete they will need to spend big and it needs to not be on 30 somethings.  They need to get as young as possible so that they can get some kind of continuity going.  Those guys along with Trout, Calhoun, Cron, Richards, Heaney, Pujols if he doesn't retire (haha yeah right), and maybe Perez will be the core.  Then as young guys come up through the farm they will have a solid foundation to join and can fill out the roster.  Its much easier for young guys to succeed when they come into a stable organization that isn't heavily depending on them to produce. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

I completely agree that this crop of free agents is good enough to fill all the holes the Angels have.  The talent is available and they need to spend wisely to fill them all.  That is why I think it is more wise for the Angels to focus on the "second-tier" players that are still very good, but won't cost as much as the "elite" players will.

 

Yeah I am ok with both methods.  I just think Arte could open his checkbook, sign Heyward, and then still sign Zobrist, Chen, and a couple relief guys.  But yeah, if Heyward is going to prevent that then it isn;t worth it.  He isn't going to be "the piece".

[Jim]

Nice response AF86. Wonder if i still have time to delete my post and pretend i dont know why youre quoting me

Hahaha, can't tell you how many times I've felt the same way. Great response.

[beatlesrule]

No, you are a Scioscia defender. Pujols didn't hit .250 and his 40 hr were the most he's hit as an Angel. Also, he had an abysmal average with risp. That's not something you want from your clean up hitter. I'll also go out on a limb and state the average cleanup hitter in baseball had a higher batting average and hit better with risp.

Edited October 14, 2015 by beatlesrule

[ten ocho recon scout]

Yeah I am ok with both methods. I just think Arte could open his checkbook, sign Heyward, and then still sign Zobrist, Chen, and a couple relief guys. But yeah, if Heyward is going to prevent that then it isn;t worth it. He isn't going to be "the piece".

thats where im at. I dont see heyward as being the carry us over the top type. Weve compared him to crawford, which i think is a good comp. Nothing to do with stats. But crawford at his peak was a very, very good player. The red sox adding him wasnt a guge deal, but adding him and agon was (even though it didnt work out)

[ten ocho recon scout]

Hahaha, can't tell you how many times I've felt the same way. Great response.

lol, thats the problem with this site, too many people smarter than me!

If you guys need me ill be in the hangout forum food thread until the hot stove is over...