past, present, future...

[floplag]

For a long time now many here talked about how we needed to rebuild the farm and better emulate other team that put more emphasis on building from within etc... Here's the thing about that, it isnt a painless thing if you expect to win.  Every team that has had success doing this has paid for it with some very bad seasons in order to get the draft picks, or traded away good players to stock the farm. 

 

In the past we have gone for the big splash with mixed results, some good, some bad.  Weve won some divisions etc... we all know the history.  The bad news is that it hasnt won the brass  ring. 

 

For the present it seems we are taking a different approach... we have apparently made a conscious decision to sacrifice a few years trying to stay competitive and not make big trades or any more large signings in order to keep or not sacrifice the gains we have made in the farm system.  The bad news is that we are wasting great years from Trout, and perhaps the best year we are likely to get from Pujols trying to stay in the playoff picture and look like we are making an effort, when the reality is that it seems the front office has decided the future.

 

The future, well, im guessing we are going to be more frugal, build the farm, and walk the path of maximizing profits and staying semi relevant.  I dont expect any significant FA signings for a few years.  Of course this leaves Trout wasting his best years on average teams till we develop some in house talent to fill in the blanks.  Based on our prospect reports of late, that aint happening in the next couple season at position spots. 

 

Right now this team is hard to watch.  Offensively we are just offensive.  We brought in 3 guys to try to fix it and it was like throwing gas on the fire.  Moves were there to be made if we were serous about making a run this year or maybe even next, we chose not to make them.  The reasons dont really matter, the results do.   We basically said as a franchise that 2017 or 2018 are more important overall than 2015 is.   

 

It seems to be the way of things in baseball these days, i see a huge shift toward that mentality, unfortunately you can really stock the farm without high draft picks or a lot of luck... average to good teams dont pick that high, and weve never had a great scouting department in that sense.

For me it kinda feels like we are regressing back to the Disney days, anyone want to bring back the periwinkle?

[Homebrewer]

The Giants have won 3 of 5 WS without going through full-on "suicide rebuilds", so it can be done.

Scouting, solid organizational philosophy, great field managing...and yeah, some luck are needed...but reckless "drunken sailor" signings of "names".. to contracts that make no sense long term will kill any team.

 

Arte put this team in this position with his myopic stupidity, not the least of which was the putrid Scioscia extension in 09. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by Homebrewer

[Second Base]

The Angels had a lot going for them. Large market team, new TV deal, great location, spend happy owner, proven winner of a manager, one of the smartest GM's in the business and the best player in baseball.

Somehow, they've managed to take all of that, and turn it into a soap opera of drama, five years of playoff drought and quick October exits.

What a mess!

Still, it shouldn't be difficult to right the ship. They have the sort of pitching depth that can land the the MOTO and TOTO bats they need. They just need a GM smart and aggressive enough to make that move. If they don't screw that hiring up too royally, they should remain competitive for the next 3-5 years at least.

[floplag]

The Giants have won 3 of 5 WS without going through full-on "suicide rebuilds", so it can be done.

Scouting, solid organizational philosophy, great field managing...and yeah, some luck are needed...but reckless "drunken sailor" signings of "names".. to contracts that make no sense long term will kill any team.

 

Arte put this team in this position with his myopic stupidity, not the least of which was the putrid Scioscia extension in 09. 

 

im not suggesting drunken moves at all, but i get the feeling the organization feels snakebit right now.  i mean i sorta cant blame them, our luck with high profile signings has been very mixed, but lets be real, our farm isnt stocked with quality at positions right now, at least not much thats going to be relevant in the next couple years.  

 

We traded guys like Grichuck away and thats left us in a place where the only quick fix is to spend.  Does anyone actually think they will at this point?  Do we believe they would for example go after a Cespedes in the off season?

I dont think Arte put the team where it is, i mean sure he wanted to win and probably greenlighted a few things he shouldn't have but he wasnt the one that brokered those deals or put them in place.

I do think its time for a change though in the skippers seat, no manager should have the power Scoscia has, it doesnt work.  His job is to run the team on the field, not build it in the front office.  Its time for a new voice in my opinion.   He clearly has higher ambitions and isnt as concerned about managing as he should be in my opinion.   That having been said i for one dont want any part of him as a GM.

[floplag]

The Angels had a lot going for them. Large market team, new TV deal, great location, spend happy owner, proven winner of a manager, one of the smartest GM's in the business and the best player in baseball.

Somehow, they've managed to take all of that, and turn it into a soap opera of drama, five years of playoff drought and quick October exits.

What a mess!

Still, it shouldn't be difficult to right the ship. They have the sort of pitching depth that can land the the MOTO and TOTO bats they need. They just need a GM smart and aggressive enough to make that move. If they don't screw that hiring up too royally, they should remain competitive for the next 3-5 years at least.

 

This is the part that frustrates me the most, how did we become all my children?

Thats not the players fault, thats the failure of the front office and the manager to work together as a unit.  Now Arte isnt going anywhere, but its time for a new GM and a new manager that can work the same vision.  

Scoscia at this point just feels a little too old school for todays baseball.  We need a young intellectual GM and a manager that can work a spreadsheet as well as his gut. 

[Homebrewer]

""Scoscia at this point just feels a little too old school for todays baseball. We need a young intellectual GM and a manager that can work a spreadsheet as well as his gut. ""

Instead, ARTE did just the opposite. He made the old tired manager King for Life, and let his "Young intellectual GM" walk out the door.

I really don't get why people can't see that it is mostly Arte to blame for the soap opera that this org has become. He's the boss, and he is hands on with his toy.

He "hired" Albert for his high profile and his clean reputation, disregarding his age and the decline that was already obvious in the numbers and was sure to continue .. and he also brought in Hamilton on a promise that he would behave. The way he personally dumped him when he broke that promise, proves his direct involvement.

That so many here are overly willing to give Arte a pass, yet are so upset that things are not what they should be with the organization....can't have it both ways folks. Arte is so hands on he tells everyone what they will to wear to work.

That tells me he is way too involved in what is going on..

[70runner]

Still, it shouldn't be difficult to right the ship. They have the sort of pitching depth that can land the the MOTO and TOTO bats they need. They just need a GM smart and aggressive enough to make that move. If they don't screw that hiring up too royally, they should remain competitive for the next 3-5 years at least.

 

Angels have a GM, his name is Scioscia.  He isn't smart or aggressive.  He is unparalleled in his ability to turn pages and tip caps.  Very unlikely a prospective GM quality person would step into the empire ruled by Scioscia.  Plod forward with Scioscia or select a GM/manager combo that will work together to bring some athleticism, speed, and enthusiasm to an old, slow team with too many Scioscia players - over the hill vets.  

[floplag]

I'm not giving him a pass, i just highly doubt he playing the Steinbrenner game.
I dont knwo what went on to make DiPoto walk, but i darned sure didnt see him doing a Theo/Beane impression while he was here either.
I'm sure there is blame to go around but i dont see a lot of moves by DiPoto outside of the ones we think Arte wanted to suggest he was all that either. 

[Homebrewer]

""I'm sure there is blame to go around but i dont see a lot of moves by DiPoto outside of the ones we think Arte wanted to suggest he was all that either.""

Really????
2 "plug em into the rotation" starting pitchers for Trumbo?
Maybe you just aren't aware of how amazing that is to pull of?
And that is just one..

[NrM]

Angels have a GM, his name is Scioscia.  He isn't smart or aggressive.  He is unparalleled in his ability to turn pages and tip caps.  Very unlikely a prospective GM quality person would step into the empire ruled by Scioscia.  Plod forward with Scioscia or select a GM/manager combo that will work together to bring some athleticism, speed, and enthusiasm to an old, slow team with too many Scioscia players - over the hill vets.  

 

Better off just keeping Stoneman as the permanent yesman to scioscia.

[floplag]

""I'm sure there is blame to go around but i dont see a lot of moves by DiPoto outside of the ones we think Arte wanted to suggest he was all that either.""

Really????

2 "plug em into the rotation" starting pitchers for Trumbo?

Maybe you just aren't aware of how amazing that is to pull of?

And that is just one..

No im well aware im just not giving him a pass on all the others for one or two good ones. 

Im not saying he was terrible, its just funny to me that you want to force all the bad ones on Arte and not hold both accountable. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by floplag

[Homebrewer]

Floplag...

Just in case you haven't seen Trumbo's stats in a while, take a look at these and tell me what Jerry got for him wasn't absolutely F'n amazing.

 

 

 

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/trumbma01.shtml

Dipoto will be a GM again, and one hell of a GM at that.

Future Angel fans will marvel at the stupidity of having the guy and letting him walk.

[Homebrewer]

Im not saying he was terrible, its just funny to me that you want to force all the bad ones on Arte and not hold both accountable.>>>

I only blame Arte for Pujols and Hamilton.

I only do it because it is clear that this was the situation.

If you don't agree, that's fine...but I think you need to pull your head out of the sand. (respectfully of course)

[floplag]

So, even though i already conceded that was a good deal you are gonna hang onto that many times just so i know?

Look, again, im not saying everything he did was bad, but i prefer to look at the entire body of work, and there was a lot of stinkers in there aside from the 2 that you conveniently want to attribute to Arte alone. 

Pujols has not been a bad deal by the way.. expensive yes, but he has produced.  Noone is going to produce to the level he was payed, we knew that going in, but all in all I dont think hes bad that bad in comparison to other 1B around the league.   If you factor in the mentoring for Trout and other intangibles his stock rises a bit more.    Overpayed, yes, who isnt at that level, but bad, no.  

Hamilton, well my position on that one is very clear but if we had gotten HALF the man we thought we were getting we would be 5-10 games up right now sand not having this discussion, that's his failure not Arte or DiPoto as far as im concerned.  The man turned into a eunuch, a gutless wonder, a pussy.. insert whatever words you like here but the man lost his balls, period. 
 

[UndertheHalo]

What makes you think the club won't spend ? Some money is off the books and we have several areas of need.

[Homebrewer]

Pujols has had exactly 1 "decent" year, if you combine his 6 best months over the last 2-3 seasons.

Even I didn't think this was all we would get out of him....I expected 4 or 5 good years.

That money could have been spread out to improve the minors in a few dozen ways.

Imagine the scouts that money would have hired, for one thing.

There are way more things than paying the 25 guys on the team plane that go into making up a major league organization. 

[Troll Daddy]

Did someone said that Dipoto is one of the smartest GM's in baseball? I get why a lot of you like the guy, I like him somewhat too, but let's not get crazy here. Dipoto pretty much crippled our offense. Although, much of that had to do with Josh Hamilton being traded for peanuts. I like David Freese somewhat ... but not fond of giving up young cost controlled everyday players.

[fan_since79]

Floplag...

Just in case you haven't seen Trumbo's stats in a while, take a look at these and tell me what Jerry got for him wasn't absolutely F'n amazing.

 

 

 

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/trumbma01.shtml

Dipoto will be a GM again, and one hell of a GM at that.

Future Angel fans will marvel at the stupidity of having the guy and letting him walk.

 

That trade and the one for Street were both magnificent.

 

Too bad he doesn't get much chance to save games anymore, when we're usually down 3-0 in the 9th.

[fan_since79]

Did someone said that Dipoto is one of the smartest GM's in baseball? I get why a lot of you like the guy, I like him somewhat too, but let's not get crazy here. Dipoto pretty much crippled our offense. Although, much of that had to do with Josh Hamilton being traded for peanuts. I like David Freese somewhat ... but not fond of giving up young cost controlled everyday players.

 

Trolling again. Of course. The hitters who can hit but refuse to do so have crippled our offense, not Dipoto. The bad baserunning has crippled our offense. That's not Jerry's fault. We scored 773 runs last season, the most in baseball. Did trading Kendrick for Heaney cripple our team? Hardly. His WAR is higher than Howie's.

Edited August 12, 2015 by fan_since79