No one thinks Dipoto was a great GM

[Docwaukee]

Yes he quit, but it's hard to blame someone for separating themselves from what they think is a toxic situation for them and their family. Jerry doesn't strike me as the type to do what he did unless that was the case. He walked away from a team that was better off than when he started and they are worse off without him IMO. It speaks volumes to the dynamic that he left and frankly the team seems rudderless without him or at least that rudder has them pointing in a direction of stormy seas. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Guest]

Hating Scioscia and liking Dipoto are not mutually exclusive.

A lot of us are just pissed that Jerry quit. I really liked his style, and I wish he had waited until the end of the year to leave.

Edited August 2, 2015 by failos

[UndertheHalo]

Hating Scioscia and liking Dipoto are not mutually exclusive.

A lot of us are just pissed that Jerry quit. I really liked his style, and I wish he had waited until the end of the year to leave.

Yea by no means did I dislike DiPoto, I liked him and was sorry too see him go. That said, I'm not gonna mourn his resignation. He didn't have to do it the way he did, but he did so... Ok we'll move on. It's not gonna ruin the franchise. There's other good baseball people out there, I'm confident we'll find one.

[Inside Pitch]

the angels are notoriously tight-lipped on internal things. we don't know everything that went on with arte and jerry, just like we don't know everything that happened with hamilton. wouldn't surprise me at all if dipoto's decision to quit involved things that happened with how arte dealt with hamilton.

 

the reality is that we don't know very much. attaching labels seems fruitless at this point.

 

as for jerry, i thought he did a good job and i liked having him at the helm. wish he was still here.

 

They used to be very tight lipped -- that hasn't been the case of late.  Lots of loose lips all of a sudden and I honestly wonder who and why it's been happening.  

 

Dipoto wasn't a bad GM but his best skills are as a politician.  There is no denying the guy can talk a fair game and that he is extremely personable/likeable, that's won him a lot of fans, much more than say Bill Stoneman who rarely spoke and accomplished a world more in less time.

 

With Chuck coming out and admitting that JD wasn't completely devoid of responsibility when it comes to Pujols and Hamilton, people need to reconsider his tenure.   I'm not saying he was a bad GM, because I don't believe that is the case, but he's not the blameless figure some have tried to portray him as..

Edited August 2, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

Saying he "quit" on the team without knowing the facts of what happened is stupidity on your part.

 

And the flip-side to your stance is.....  Pretending he didn't quit and defending him without knowing the facts of what happened is stupidity on your part.    

 

And since we don't fully know his side, it's pretty chicken shit to label him a quitter. For all we know it was the team that quit on him.

 

Wouldn't a team quitting on him be a sign of bad leadership?  I mean, when in the history of the game has a GM ever had his team quit on him?   Maybe the better question is has a GM ever put himself in a position where that was actually possible?   I'm not being rhetorical, I'm trying to remember an instance in MLB where the GM quit and cited the reason as the team having quit on him.

 

And again -- the flip-side to you argument is.... wouldn't it be "stupid" to fault the team for quitting on him without "fully knowing their side".      Are you capable of applying your logic evenly or do the rules only apply when it's a defense of Teflon Jerry.

 

There's a difference between "quitting on the team", the way you mean it, and resigning for the good of the organization. I'd hope you could understand that. I bet if you could ask him, he could educate you.

 

His self serving dribble as he exited rings hollow in face of the actual situation.

 

What good did he feel he would be doing by creating chaos and leaving the team in a lurch with an unfinished plan just before the deadline?   It's hard to argue that the team was in a better position by handing the reins over to someone else, anyone else, when JD was the architect of the long term plan and he had been the one building the relationships...   This was about him and only him.  Which is fine.

Obviously you liked Dipoto, you bought into his talk and despite your call for critical thinking and waiting out all the information you are squarely in his camp..   I'm not condemning you for picking a side, just please try to refrain from calling others stupid when you fail to play by your own rules.

 

Praise him for what he did right, fault him for his missteps, I bet if you asked him he'd tell you that would be fair.   

Edited August 2, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

Yes he quit, but it's hard to blame someone for separating themselves from what they think is a toxic situation for them and their family. Jerry doesn't strike me as the type to do what he did unless that was the case. He walked away from a team that was better off than when he started and they are worse off without him IMO. It speaks volumes to the dynamic that he left and frankly the team seems rudderless without him or at least that rudder has them pointing in a direction of stormy seas. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

Doc, I agree he shouldn't be catching crap for just bailing -- but let's not pretend his family was at risk.  He wasn't being asked to act as Mayor of Fallujah, he was the GM of a MLB team, extremely well liked by the fans and completely devoid of fault in the eyes of most people as it related to the team's most recent and glaring missteps. 

 

You say the team is rudderless -- seems to me the team is simply in a very difficult situation.  They can't take any one course and run with it knowing there could be massive change once the season ends.  I said it when the shit hit the fan and I'll say it again.  This team/franchise needs to worry less about the final outcome of this season and more about what the long term plan and who will be running it.  EVERYTHING changed when the guy at the very top took his ball and went home.  Its foolish to get caught up in the who and why, the only thing the franchise needs to worry about is what this team wants to be and who gets to lead them there moving forward.

 

I'd feel better about the situation regardless of how the team finished if Klentak were officially given the reigns.   At least there would be ONE person to blame or praise again, instead of all the cloak and dagger BS about Stoneman, Scioscia, and Moreno.

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

But seriously, he made some great trades, and he made some bad ones, with some bad signings. His philosophy just didn't match up with Scioscia's, and they weren't going to be able to coexist, especially when none of the players or management/ownership have your back either. Do I think he was a great GM? No, but he wasn't bad, and I think he was getting even better.

 

This is a fair and well articulated post.    When it's all said and done I'll look back on the Dipoto era as having been the right plan and the wrong implementation.  Not because I feel JD did anything wrong, but rather because his owner failed to let him pick his own manager.   That's not to say MS is bad, he just wasn't JD's guy and there was always a level of mutual mistrust at the very top as a result.

[Amazing Larry]

I can't believe you guys are still talking about this shit.

[Inside Pitch]

I can't believe you guys are still talking about this shit.

 

Salas started it.

[bloodbrother]

Jerry just wanted to be the first one out of the burning building that is the Angels organization

[Second Base]

Jerry was the best GM this team has had in my opinion. He was smart, communicative, likable and set up an infrastructure from scratch that worked effectively. The Trumbo, Conger and Kendrick trades were among the best this organization has ever made. The Mike Trout extension is an absolute bargain.

It's a shame to lose him.

[Broad Street]

This is a fair and well articulated post. When it's all said and done I'll look back on the Dipoto era as having been the right plan and the wrong implementation. Not because I feel JD did anything wrong, but rather because his owner failed to let him pick his own manager. That's not to say MS is bad, he just wasn't JD's guy and there was always a level of mutual mistrust at the very top as a result.

That's where I think it all went down hill. How many times does a team bring in a new GM that doesn't get to choose his own manager?

[Broad Street]

Jerry was the best GM this team has had in my opinion. He was smart, communicative, likable and set up an infrastructure from scratch that worked effectively. The Trumbo, Conger and Kendrick trades were among the best this organization has ever made. The Mike Trout extension is an absolute bargain.

It's a shame to lose him.

The Frieri/Grilli and Huston Street swaps were also very good IMO

[rageous]

Jerry's grade on his tenure is dependent on who was actually responsible for Pujols and Hamilton signining.

If it was Arte's doing and he was the one behind the big name signing then Dipoto gets an A.

But if Dipoto was the one behind those signings then he gets a C at best.  

Hamilton signing was the worst signing in the history of the club and ranks as the second worst move next to trading for Vernon Wells.

[Jay]

I don't think he was a great GM, he didn't have enough years to be that.  Maybe someday he will be a great GM somewhere.

 

When you're in the public eye as Dipoto is, it matters how you handle things.  Dipoto's departure from the team was handled in a way that made him look bad IMO.  His fans here may defend him but in reality outside of the few fans he has here, how is he perceived?

[stormngt]

Did he quit mid year?

Did he quit just before a critical trade deadline?

The evidence is pretty strong that he quit on the team.

There might be extenuating circumstances justifying why he quit. I need to know what those circumstances are to justify the resignation. Absent of knowing the circumstances just reinforces the argument that he quit on the team.

Think of this anology.

person A shoots an unarmed person.

there is a lot of evidence that person A is a murderer.

now there maybe some extenuating circumstances to justify the shooting. However absent of knowing the circumstances we have to assume person A is a murderer.

And since we don't fully know his side, it's pretty chicken shit to label him a quitter. For all we know it was the team that quit on him.

[Guest]

I don't think he was a great GM, he didn't have enough years to be that.  Maybe someday he will be a great GM somewhere.

 

When you're in the public eye as Dipoto is, it matters how you handle things.  Dipoto's departure from the team was handled in a way that made him look bad IMO.  His fans here may defend him but in reality outside of the few fans he has here, how is he perceived?

Most of the articles about Dipoto in the national media have tried to reinforce the narrative that Dipoto was strong armed out of the organization by Moreno and/or Scioscia. 

[Tyler]

Inside Pitch owns another thread. 

[Dick B Back]

Jerry threads!

Go Halos!

[full circle]

Did he quit mid year?

Did he quit just before a critical trade deadline?

The evidence is pretty strong that he quit on the team.

There might be extenuating circumstances justifying why he quit. I need to know what those circumstances are to justify the resignation. Absent of knowing the circumstances just reinforces the argument that he quit on the team.

Think of this anology.

person A shoots an unarmed person.

there is a lot of evidence that person A is a murderer.

now there maybe some extenuating circumstances to justify the shooting. However absent of knowing the circumstances we have to assume person A is a murderer.

This is pretty hilarious. All you know is that dipoto resigned his position. You know nothing else. Since you're on the murder analogy kick, in this country you're presumed innocent until proven guilty. You have no more evidence that dipoto quit on the team than you do that he was "pushed out".

[Jay]

This is pretty hilarious. All you know is that dipoto resigned his position. You know nothing else. Since you're on the murder analogy kick, in this country you're presumed innocent until proven guilty. You have no more evidence that dipoto quit on the team than you do that he was "pushed out".

 

Well we did hear that Moreno tried to get him to stay.

[full circle]

And the flip-side to your stance is..... Pretending he didn't quit and defending him without knowing the facts of what happened is stupidity on your part.

Wouldn't a team quitting on him be a sign of bad leadership? I mean, when in the history of the game has a GM ever had his team quit on him? Maybe the better question is has a GM ever put himself in a position where that was actually possible? I'm not being rhetorical, I'm trying to remember an instance in MLB where the GM quit and cited the reason as the team having quit on him.

And again -- the flip-side to you argument is.... wouldn't it be "stupid" to fault the team for quitting on him without "fully knowing their side". Are you capable of applying your logic evenly or do the rules only apply when it's a defense of Teflon Jerry.

His self serving dribble as he exited rings hollow in face of the actual situation.

What good did he feel he would be doing by creating chaos and leaving the team in a lurch with an unfinished plan just before the deadline? It's hard to argue that the team was in a better position by handing the reins over to someone else, anyone else, when JD was the architect of the long term plan and he had been the one building the relationships... This was about him and only him. Which is fine.

Obviously you liked Dipoto, you bought into his talk and despite your call for critical thinking and waiting out all the information you are squarely in his camp.. I'm not condemning you for picking a side, just please try to refrain from calling others stupid when you fail to play by your own rules.

Praise him for what he did right, fault him for his missteps, I bet if you asked him he'd tell you that would be fair.

See if you can follow along. I'm not the one calling anyone a quitter. I'm making no judgements either way. I'm not one of the ones knee jerkingly defending dipoto at every turn. So I have no need to defend any position and there is no misapplication of logic on my part.

There was something about the way tomsred kept saying he quit in the team that rubbed me the wrong way seeing as how he didn't know the full reasons for Jerry's departure. That doesn't mean that I know for sure jerry didn't quit on the team, but then again I never stated for a fact that he didn't either.

[full circle]

Well we did hear that Moreno tried to get him to stay.

Yes we did. That's why the pushed out was in quotations. We know he wasn't literally pushed out, but he may have felt pushed out, powerless, neutered, whatever and just as a matter of self-respect felt he couldn't stay. And if that's what happened, I don't call that quitting on the team.

[tomsred]

That's where I think it all went down hill. How many times does a team bring in a new GM that doesn't get to choose his own manager?

 

It doesn't happen very often.  However, in this situation you have a long tenured manager, under an extended contract, who has the confidence of the owner, and you are a relatively inexperienced GM.  There is good reason to believe that the owner isn't going to turn over absolute authority to you without your case being lock tight.  Jerry brought many good traits to the job, and he seems like a wonderful person, but that is always not enough.  I'm struck by the fact that he probably wanted more power, more authority to implement his ideas, but his skills at getting other people (especially the manager and coaching staff) to see the merits of doing so are quite suspect.  Someone posted earlier that he hopes we don't get a yes man as our next GM.  My response to that is don't confuse a yes man with someone who keeps conflict under control but get results because his ideas are convincing and he knows how to present them.  Good managers get people to do things they want them to do by being convincing vs. force feeding, and sometimes by letting others think it was their idea in the first place. 

Edited August 2, 2015 by tomsred

[Jay]

Yes we did. That's why the pushed out was in quotations. We know he wasn't literally pushed out, but he may have felt pushed out, powerless, neutered, whatever and just as a matter of self-respect felt he couldn't stay. And if that's what happened, I don't call that quitting on the team.

 

So he was unhappy and quit.

 

 

 

In the middle of the season.