Angels ten drafts picks compiled (per John Sickels)

[tdawg87]

Pujols?

 

It definitely isn't Trout. No reputable publication would have even dared print a report like that.

[Jay]

Is it true the Angels drafted the brother of Mike Trout's girlfriend?

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/10/angels-draft-the-brother-of-mike-trouts-girlfriend/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[Angelsjunky]

Doc,

One thing I do believe and understand about Jerry Dipoto and the front office is that they have a clear plan about how they want to build the team. Whether it is certain types of hitters, pitchers, or relievers they are pursuing that plan.

One of the front office members said, and I'm totally paraphrasing, yesterday (or the day before) that people (or fans) don't fully understand what the Angels are trying to do. The intimation in the statement was probably glossed over too much by most but I got the impression that they picked Ward because he had a specific set of skills (no Taken jokes please).

The point is that the Angels clearly have been drafting, trading, and purchasing pitchers who have some type of two-seam pitch combined with an above average change up. Acquiring strong defensive catchers who can handle balls in the dirt and frame pitches is probably a cornerstone of their pitching-catching philosophy and strategy. Catcher offense probably isn't a high priority in that philosophy (although certainly welcomed).

I certainly agree the pick was a reach but the Angels clearly had scouted the kid well and wanted what skill set he had to add to their Minor League system.

And yes it was a boring pick.

 

Good post, ettin. My only issue is that when you start saying things like "no one understands what we're trying to do," that could be a cover-up for "we have no idea what we're doing" or "what we're doing is genious to us, but dumm to others - therefore they don't understand what we're doing."

 

At some point these mastermind plans have to start bearing fruit.

 

What I see is Jerry trying to make up for some terrible misjudgements on the part of Reagins and Moreno - the Wells trade being one, as well as the Pujols and Hamilton contracts. But Jerry's also made some godawful moves, like trading Bourjos and Grichuk--two players that could really help this team right now for a washed third base mediocrity and a run-of-the-mill middle reliever. Imagine an outfield right now of Grichuk-Trout-Calhoun, with Bourjos as the fourth outfielder. The Angels would be set in the outfield for years without being substantially worse at 3B or in the bullpen.

 

If we assume that everything done in Jerry's tenure is Jerry, I'd give him an overall grade of a D+/C-; the Pujols and Hamilton contracts were just that bad. If we take out Pujols and Hamilton as Archie's moves, I'd go with a B-/B. He has the potential to be more, but my concern is that so many of his moves look decent to good at the time he makes them, but then end up looking worse later on (e.g. Frieri, among others). He's had one really great move (Trumbo for Santiago/Skaggs) that was balanced out by one really bad one (Grichuk/Bourjos for Freese/Salas).

 

All things tolled, I still see Jerry as a youngish GM with a lot of potential. He's only been the Angels GM for three and a half years, plus a few months before that as the interim manager of the Diamondbacks. I imagine that it takes a few years to get your sea legs and hopefully Arte will give him more time.

[Angel Oracle]

Heavy, bulky body. Extra weight on lower half. Future weight problem. Aggressive hitter with mistake HR power. Tends to be a hacker. Chases. Projected round: 9th

This is what the scouts wrote about this current Angel player. Who is it?

Scouting reports aren't 100% accurate...players develop.

Give Taylor Ward a chance to develop before crucifying him or comparing him to Jeff Mathis.

Is it Trout? Or Pujols?

Guessing Pujols because he went in the 10th round in the late 1990s

[Docwaukee]

Doc,

One thing I do believe and understand about Jerry Dipoto and the front office is that they have a clear plan about how they want to build the team. Whether it is certain types of hitters, pitchers, or relievers they are pursuing that plan.

One of the front office members said, and I'm totally paraphrasing, yesterday (or the day before) that people (or fans) don't fully understand what the Angels are trying to do. The intimation in the statement was probably glossed over too much by most but I got the impression that they picked Ward because he had a specific set of skills (no Taken jokes please).

The point is that the Angels clearly have been drafting, trading, and purchasing pitchers who have some type of two-seam pitch combined with an above average change up. Acquiring strong defensive catchers who can handle balls in the dirt and frame pitches is probably a cornerstone of their pitching-catching philosophy and strategy. Catcher offense probably isn't a high priority in that philosophy (although certainly welcomed).

I certainly agree the pick was a reach but the Angels clearly had scouted the kid well and wanted what skill set he had to add to their Minor League system.

And yes it was a boring pick.

I see what you're laying down Robert, and I will remain neutral and let the cards fall where they may as the opportunity to get impact through the draft has been extremely limited until last year.  It's unfair to judge what's been done through the draft over the last 5 years and in particular the last 4 where JD has been running the show.  That 2011 draft isn't looking too good.  

 

This is really our first look at what this regime can do upon going position player heavy so I'll reserve my comments for now.  

[Blarg]

Good post, ettin. My only issue is that when you start saying things like "no one understands what we're trying to do," that could be a cover-up for "we have no idea what we're doing" or "what we're doing is genious to us, but dumm to others - therefore they don't understand what we're doing."

 

At some point these mastermind plans have to start bearing fruit.

 

What I see is Jerry trying to make up for some terrible misjudgements on the part of Reagins and Moreno - the Wells trade being one, as well as the Pujols and Hamilton contracts. But Jerry's also made some godawful moves, like trading Bourjos and Grichuk--two players that could really help this team right now for a washed third base mediocrity and a run-of-the-mill middle reliever. Imagine an outfield right now of Grichuk-Trout-Calhoun, with Bourjos as the fourth outfielder. The Angels would be set in the outfield for years without being substantially worse at 3B or in the bullpen.

 

If we assume that everything done in Jerry's tenure is Jerry, I'd give him an overall grade of a D+/C-; the Pujols and Hamilton contracts were just that bad. If we take out Pujols and Hamilton as Archie's moves, I'd go with a B-/B. He has the potential to be more, but my concern is that so many of his moves look decent to good at the time he makes them, but then end up looking worse later on (e.g. Frieri, among others). He's had one really great move (Trumbo for Santiago/Skaggs) that was balanced out by one really bad one (Grichuk/Bourjos for Freese/Salas).

 

All things tolled, I still see Jerry as a youngish GM with a lot of potential. He's only been the Angels GM for three and a half years, plus a few months before that as the interim manager of the Diamondbacks. I imagine that it takes a few years to get your sea legs and hopefully Arte will give him more time.

 

You can't imagine that outfield because $150 million was tied up in Hamilton. Also Callaspo was traded away for Green the season before the Freese trade was considered. Blame Green for being too Green to take the position and run with it.

 

Spilt milk and 20/20 hindsight just seems to go together but when you add context it seems to be not that solid of logic or reasoning.

[Blarg]

Is it Trout? Or Pujols?

Guessing Pujols because he went in the 10th round in the late 1990s

 

Pujols was the 13th round but the report is obviously Alfredo Amezega, the guy the Angels picked before Pujols was selected. Of the two, Amezega got his World Series ring first. Scoreboard!

[stormngt]

Wasn't Mathis numbers pretty good in the minors?

My biggest concern with Ward is that the organization will succumb to confirmation bias and continue to move him up the ladder in spite of terrible offensive numbers. Worst part about Mathis wasn't how bad he was, but the number of at-bats he got in spite of it.

[ksangel]

Mathis did have some good years in the minors hitting .300, .287, .315, .278 and .289.  Hit 21 homers with 78 RBI' one year at AAA.

 

Correct answer to who is this Angel is:  Albert Pujols.

[tomsred]

Wasn't Mathis numbers pretty good in the minors?

 

 

Yes, I believe so.  I still believe he's a good defensive catcher, and great game caller.  Offense in the majors never materialized, and throwing wise he could be erratic at times.  He's a tough and durable athlete, that's what I'll remember about him.  I don't remember the exact year, but early on he took a fastball to the face, and it resulted in about a dozen fractures.  Anyone who can come back from that and have any kind of career is pretty tough in my book.

 

We love to joke about him on this message board, or any other player who fails notably, but most of what you read here is overblown and fails to account for some of the good stuff about him.

[Angelsjunky]

You can't imagine that outfield because $150 million was tied up in Hamilton. Also Callaspo was traded away for Green the season before the Freese trade was considered. Blame Green for being too Green to take the position and run with it.

 

Spilt milk and 20/20 hindsight just seems to go together but when you add context it seems to be not that solid of logic or reasoning.

 

I can imagine that outfield because Grichuk is only becoming a full-time player now, the year that Hamilton is gone. Bourjos could have stayed and been the 4th outfielder and would have been useful last year when Hamilton missed 73 games, and Calhoun 35. The bottom line is that the team would be better off now if that trade hadn't been made. I'm saying this with hindsight (although hated the trade at the time), but the job of a GM requires him to ask: "What will this trade look like in a couple years?"

 

I'm not whining over spilt milk, just pointing out some concerns about the way the Angels operate, and looking at JD in a balanced way - the positives and negatives.

[Angelsjunky]

Jeff Mathis was a highly touted prospect for a couple years there. John Sickels saw him not far behind Joe Mauer and Baseball America had him in their top 100 prospects for four years in a row, peaking at #22 pre-2004 after he hit .315/.480/.493 between A+ and AA at age 20.

[tdawg87]

Mathis just could not figure out MLB level pitching, but man did he know how to squat.

[mulwin444]

Jeff Mathis was a highly touted prospect for a couple years there. John Sickels saw him not far behind Joe Mauer and Baseball America had him in their top 100 prospects for four years in a row, peaking at #22 pre-2004 after he hit .315/.480/.493 between A+ and AA at age 20.

Yeah, it sucks when they drop off offensively between levels.  The guy obviously could rake at A, A+, and AA and even his AAA numbers were fine but he was historically bad once he got on the 25 man roster.  Same thing with Brandon Wood...the guy had 100 extra basehits one season between three levels and still put up solid numbers at AA and AAA on a shuttle between there and Anaheim but he could never get close to figuring it out at the MLB level.  In 2010, the Angels gave him a ful fledge shot at owning the 3B position and he put a .146 .176 OBP .208 SLG .382 OPS 6 BB 71 SO 6 OPS+ in 243 PAs...I didn't even know that shitty of a performance was possible. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

Heavy, bulky body. Extra weight on lower half. Future weight problem. Aggressive hitter with mistake HR power. Tends to be a hacker. Chases. Projected round: 9th

This is what the scouts wrote about this current Angel player. Who is it?

Scouting reports aren't 100% accurate...players develop.

Give Taylor Ward a chance to develop before crucifying him or comparing him to Jeff Mathis.

 

This does read like an accurate description of Albert Pujols... 

[eaterfan]

Didn't Ruben Amaro just drop the "fans just don't know the plan" line last week?

[AngelsLakersFan]

I can imagine that outfield because Grichuk is only becoming a full-time player now, the year that Hamilton is gone. Bourjos could have stayed and been the 4th outfielder and would have been useful last year when Hamilton missed 73 games, and Calhoun 35. The bottom line is that the team would be better off now if that trade hadn't been made. I'm saying this with hindsight (although hated the trade at the time), but the job of a GM requires him to ask: "What will this trade look like in a couple years?"

 

I'm not whining over spilt milk, just pointing out some concerns about the way the Angels operate, and looking at JD in a balanced way - the positives and negatives.

 

I hated the move at the time, and long run it is looking like a bad trade. That said last year, at the end of the season it was looking like an 'OK' trade.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Mathis just could not figure out MLB level pitching, but man did he know how to squat.

 

His minor league numbers are not all that impressive when you consider the offensive environments. Look at the numbers Kotchman, McPherson and Wood put up at those levels.

[The Dude]

Yeah, it sucks when they drop off offensively between levels.  The guy obviously could rake at A, A+, and AA and even his AAA numbers were fine but he was historically bad once he got on the 25 man roster.  Same thing with Brandon Wood...the guy had 100 extra basehits one season between three levels and still put up solid numbers at AA and AAA on a shuttle between there and Anaheim but he could never get close to figuring it out at the MLB level.  In 2010, the Angels gave him a ful fledge shot at owning the 3B position and he put a .146 .176 OBP .208 SLG .382 OPS 6 BB 71 SO 6 OPS+ in 243 PAs...I didn't even know that shitty of a performance was possible.

Its crazy to think Mathis was compared to Mauer back in the day, dude didn't even come close to that projection. I knew Wood was bad the year they gave him a shot, I had forgotten how bad he actually was. Those are some historically bad numbers. Its a shame he never paned out, seemed like a good guy.

[Inside Pitch]

His minor league numbers are not all that impressive when you consider the offensive environments. Look at the numbers Kotchman, McPherson and Wood put up at those levels.

 

I kind of see it the other way...  IMO, his numbers at Cedar Rapids were amazing in part because of the hitting environment -- ditto, Rancho.  The Midwest league was death to hitters in those days, still kind of is..  and while Rancho plays better offensively than it used to it still favors pitchers, it did however have some really nutty fluctuations based on how the winds in the Cajon Pass were blowing.   Mathis' fall from grace came in AA when he should have raked hitting in the old park at Arkansas and didn't.  Also, when you bring up Kotch and D-Mac, keep in mind those two guys were also very highly thought of and they were corner IFers, not catchers.  

 

For all the hate his offense got, there must have been something to his squat.  Guys with a career OPS+ of 52 don't manage to hang around MLB for 11 years.   It's incredible really.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

His minor league numbers are not all that impressive when you consider the offensive environments. Look at the numbers Kotchman, McPherson and Wood put up at those levels.

 

And...

 

 

Mathis is the only one still wearing a MLB uniform.

[Angel Oracle]

I still don't get trading a guy (Grichuk) who has good power and is an excellent defensive player with a strong arm. 

 

More ways that Hackilton screwed this org!      Thank you Moreno, just thank you! 

Edited June 11, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[AngelsLakersFan]

I kind of see it the other way...  IMO, his numbers at Cedar Rapids were amazing in part because of the hitting environment -- ditto, Rancho.  The Midwest league was death to hitters in those days, still kind of is..  and while Rancho plays better offensively than it used to it still favors pitchers, it did however have some really nutty fluctuations based on how the winds in the Cajon Pass were blowing.   Mathis' fall from grace came in AA when he should have raked hitting in the old park at Arkansas and didn't.  Also, when you bring up Kotch and D-Mac, keep in mind those two guys were also very highly thought of and they were corner IFers, not catchers.  

 

For all the hate his offense got, there must have been something to his squat.  Guys with a career OPS+ of 52 don't manage to hang around MLB for 11 years.   It's incredible really.

 

Hence "The Mathis Line"

[AngelsLakersFan]

And...

 

 

Mathis is the only one still wearing a MLB uniform.

 

That's not really the point. The offensive bar at catcher is the lowest of any position. We all thought it was a little higher than Jeff Mathis has proven it was.

[NrM]

The Angels seem to be going after character guys over raw talent. 

Just pure speculation though.

 

Roberto Baldoquin is another player that seems to have great "character".

Edited June 11, 2015 by Poozy