Sayonara Hamilton

[AngelsSurfer]

Here's the thing with the whole "if he were producing, nobody would care" comment. It's a bit of a simplifcation. Maybe it should be more, "if he were contributing to the team in some way, nobody would care."
 

It's a baseball team, not a rest home. They need guys there who can help the team. They will support those players. Why is that such a bad thing?

The Angels have certainly had players on their team who haven't done well in one respect, but shone in another. I'm thinking of John McDonald last year. If you looked at his batting average you might have wondered what he was doing there, but he was a defensive wizard and was also said to be a very positive and encouraging presence around the clubhouse. If that were Josh - he wasn't getting a lot of hits but had other positive qualities around the clubhouse - would the reaction still be different? I think it would be.

The thing is, Hamilton's got absolutely nothing. Not good at-bats, not good defense. No reports that he's encouraging or positive in the clubhouse. So he's really bringing nothing to the team at this point. Add in the relapse and one has to wonder why any team would be compelled to keep him. One also has to wonder why any team would be villified for trying to cut a player like that loose.

Edited April 13, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[YouthofToday]

Watch Hamilton get cut and then lead the Mariners to the AL West crown.

[Broad Street]

I'm still astounded at the different responses. I see no wrong with the Angels stance, or their comments. As someone in the military, if we test positive for drugs (including spice, which isn't illegal), or if we tell them we took it, it's an automatic Article 15, and we're probably going to do a little bit of time at Fort Leavenworth before they kick us out on our ass. Most civilian employers are a little less strict, but if you test positive for drugs, they'll most likely fire you. If you're out on the street and you get caught with drugs, you get arrested. My brother is doing prison time right now because he's a second offender with meth. They don't typically send regular people to rehab, they send them to jail. Why is it that when you're famous, all of a sudden the rules don't apply to you? Yes, Hamilton needs help. He also needs to be held accountable for his actions. 

[YouthofToday]

Thankfully sanity prevails and almost all civilians aren't drug tested by their employers. Most drugs should be legal anyways.

[AngelsSurfer]

Depends on the job. And drug tests sometimes look for legal drugs, like prescription opiates. For many jobs it is extremely dangerous to have someone under the influence of anything...legal or not. Do you want your firefighters or airplane pilot or dentist to be drunk or high? That's what it is about, safety.

Edited April 13, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[Jobu]

Dentists are drug tested?

[AngelStew43]

Kody, your brother needs to come to California.  2X with meth, and he gets a citation.

[Troll Daddy]

I'm still astounded at the different responses. I see no wrong with the Angels stance, or their comments. As someone in the military, if we test positive for drugs (including spice, which isn't illegal), or if we tell them we took it, it's an automatic Article 15, and we're probably going to do a little bit of time at Fort Leavenworth before they kick us out on our ass. Most civilian employers are a little less strict, but if you test positive for drugs, they'll most likely fire you. If you're out on the street and you get caught with drugs, you get arrested. My brother is doing prison time right now because he's a second offender with meth. They don't typically send regular people to rehab, they send them to jail. Why is it that when you're famous, all of a sudden the rules don't apply to you? Yes, Hamilton needs help. He also needs to be held accountable for his actions.

I was in the military too ... guessing you never made it to Vietnam.

[Glen]

I was in the military too ... guessing you never made it to Vietnam.

Since he's currently in the military and the Vietnam War ended roughly 30 years ago, that's a safe guess. Way to go out on a limb to be vaguely condescending.

[yk9001]

Since he's currently in the military and the Vietnam War ended roughly 30 years ago, that's a safe guess. Way to go out on a limb to be vaguely condescending.

 

Its 2015, the last American involvement was 40 years ago, right?

 

Troll Daddy's condescension stands.

[Amazing Larry]

Since he's currently in the military and the Vietnam War ended roughly 30 years ago, that's a safe guess. Way to go out on a limb to be vaguely condescending.

 

Plus or minus a decade...

[stormngt]

I still don't get how the club can't void a contract where an employee takes illegal drugs. I know the unions position but a contract should not be binding if there was illegal drug use. When an owner offers an employee a position for service that offer is on the assumption that said employee isn't on narcotics.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I still don't get how the club can't void a contract where an employee takes illegal drugs. I know the unions position but a contract should not be binding if there was illegal drug use. When an owner offers an employee a position for service that offer is on the assumption that said employee isn't on narcotics.

If he had a) tested positive for illegal drugs or been arrested and convicted of a crime, we would be having a different conversation.

Neither of those things happened.

I am pretty sure it would be difficult to discipline anyone in any line of work without either of those things.

That's the reason this isn't such a clear cut case.

Since we don't know the exact content of Hamilton's treatment agreement, it's hard to say the arbitrator was wrong.

Also, baseball players have a really good Union because they are really good at their jobs. They aren't as easily replaced as steelworkers, so they tend to get what they want in collective bargaining.

[vlad27]

I side with the Angels and Arte here - if I were Arte I'd be pissed - give a guy millions of dollars to play a game that he loves- he then plays like crap - ok so you deal with that and continue to support him , Scioscia keeps him in the lineup even when his play hadn't warranted a start in the playoffs .

Then he decides to break his agreement and turn back to drugs - it's a slap in the face - I do believe that the Angels won't get to void his contract even though it should be allowed .

How many jobs can you keep while being a known drug user ?

[Troll Daddy]

I wasn't really trying to be condescending with my Vietnam comment. Just that drugs were part of the culture back then for those who were in Vietnam.

 

sorry

[AngelsSurfer]

Dentists are drug tested?

Depends on where they work, but it's against their professional code of ethics and they can be cited, suspended or lose their licenses if they're found to be under the influence on the job. The question still stands...do you want someone doing your dental work who is high on something and can't clearly tell what they're doing? It isn't a morality issue, it is a safety one.

Edited April 13, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[ten ocho recon scout]

Again, anyone saying if hamilton was still hitting it would be different is missing the point. This goes beyond he sucks. This is several paper cuts that have led to bleeding out. Its a million different little issues (some bigger than others)

Yes, employees have rights, and hamilton has a problem. There is no debating that. But for 2 years hes been underperforming, flakey, not necessarily the greatest teammate, and now (aside from the relapse) hes off the grid and seemingly not even trying to be part of the team.

Would any of your bosses be happy about that? Especially if you were the most expensive employee?

[Amazing Larry]

How many jobs can you keep while being a known drug user ?

 

Stripper, hooker, musician, stock broker...

[beatlesrule]

I still don't get how the club can't void a contract where an employee takes illegal drugs. I know the unions position but a contract should not be binding if there was illegal drug use. When an owner offers an employee a position for service that offer is on the assumption that said employee isn't on narcotics.

 

He is a professional athlete.  He didn't test positive.  He has a disease.  The dude is pretty much untouchable.

 

I am wondering if any baseball player can use illegal drugs and then just confess if a pop urine or blood test happens to them to avoid suspension.  Is it only addicts that get a free pass with confessing?  This kind of thing will probably happen again and just imagine if a player is disciplined after he confesses to using drugs.  The media will have a field day.

[Inside Pitch]

Mike DiGiovanna â€@MikeDiGiovanna  14m14 minutes ago

An #Angels club official said Josh Hamilton has not yet made any overtures to club about stopping by clubhouse during #Astros series.

[vlad27]

Stripper, hooker, musician, stock broker...

well I am a professional musician - yet not a drug user - strange huh ? I respect my job and although its a fun job I treat it like I would any job and I don't use drugs . Why ? Because although I don't get tested for drugs by the booking agents and venues I play i am aware that using drugs is unprofessional and I consider myself a professional - one that has a fun job .

Josh is a highly paid professional who has a fun job too - except he makes way more money than I do - I'd expect him to treat his hugely high paying job with the same or more dignity than I treat my job - that's my point

Edited April 13, 2015 by vlad27

[DMVol]

 

Mike DiGiovanna â€@MikeDiGiovanna  14m14 minutes ago

An #Angels club official said Josh Hamilton has not yet made any overtures to club about stopping by clubhouse during #Astros series.

 

Sure doesn't seem like this marriage is going to last much longer....neither side trying very hard....

[Amazing Larry]

well I am a professional musician - yet not a drug user - strange huh ? I respect my job and although its a fun job I treat it like I would any job and I don't use drugs . Why ? Because although I don't get tested for drugs by the booking agents and venues I play i am aware that using drugs is unprofessional and I consider myself a professional - one that has a fun job .

Josh is a highly paid professional who has a fun job too - except he makes way more money than I do - I'd expect him to treat his hugely high paying job with the same or more dignity than I treat my job - that's my point

 

I concur. I wasn't taking a dig at you or anything.

[Tank]

 

Mike DiGiovanna â€@MikeDiGiovanna  14m14 minutes ago

An #Angels club official said Josh Hamilton has not yet made any overtures to club about stopping by clubhouse during #Astros series.

 

 

maybe they'll just skype each other.

[nando714]

Put me in the category of something happened behind closed doors between management and Hamilton that no one knows about.