Pile on the hate: The Angels looks like Dbags today

[beatlesrule]

Well how can we not think this? I have read many other articles and heard from people not even in baseball that state he can't be held accountable for his actions. Addicts are treated differently. If he could be punished, he would have.  The guy is getting away with breaking the law.  I had a friend go off on how the federal government and state of California isn't taking action on a person that admitted to breaking the law and how Arte should be ashamed of himself for not doing anything about it.  The way it is right now, he will be able to play baseball as soon as he is healed and everyone else will just have to get used to it and accept the fact that he won't be punished and does not need to apologize.  Him not apologizing as soon as it was made public is very telling.  The guy is sick and has a disease and therefore, he deserves to be babied and not treated like a soon to be 34 year old multi-millionaire.  It defies logic but the guy is stinking rich so getting upset about it won't change facts.

[AngelsSurfer]

Should there have been some major fallout for Hamilton? Yes. We're totally on the same page there. I'm not okay with his actions and I'm not okay with the decision that was made.

 

MLB wanted him punished; Manfred said as much when he said he didn't agree with the decision. Hamilton's team clearly wanted him to be punished or held accountable. NOBODY wanted to baby him there, and the fact that MLB had previously suspended him for two years really does show they weren't playing with this shit. The loophole in this case was not that he was not accountable but that he HAD accounted for his drug use and told them, and that was decided by a single person, the arbitrator. Again, I don't agree with it. However, I think the outrage perhaps needs to be directed toward the contract, the loophole, the aribtrator that found the loophole and the entire way the collective bargaining agreement does not allow a team to discipline a player like this.

 

I don't understand the way some pundits in the media are addressing this, no. I don't know, however, if it's as much that they're saying "he should be babied" as that they're saying that the Angels should have kept their mouths shut and dealt with this confidentially. If we think of it, I can understand that perspective - if a player came to them with another illness, such as diabetes or cancer, they wouldn't be in the press about this. HOWEVER, the rub is that the player broke a contract stipulation, and that is not normally kept confidential.

In terms of the law - Hamilton would have been in Texas when he did this, not California. California cannot charge him with a crime for something that happened in Texas. Also, with the way drug laws work in general, it's about possession or sales and the supply chain, not use. If Hamilton had been caught with a bag of coke in his pocket and they'd chosen not to prosecute it, it would be an issue but it's very rare for someone, famous or not, to be charged with *using* a controlled substance.

Edited April 8, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[Erstad Grit]

Yes, I know plenty about addiction seeing as I work with addicted youths 40 hours a week, have had multiple trainings on it, and work very closely with an addiction counselor. 

 

If his addiction is so strong, maybe he should put baseball behind him; retire and focus on strengthening himself, his confidence, and his abilities to fight his addiction. Maybe he should take the advice that his close friend gave him when this news first broke and walk away from the game. 

 

I have sympathies for people with addictions, but this guy needs to stop being babied. At what point does his addiction become his first and foremost issue to settle in his life?

TRUTH!

[Jeff Fletcher]

I have talked to a lot of people around baseball (players, media, etc) in the last 2 days and haven't found anyone who believes the Angels handled this properly.

The only people ok with it seem to be fans here.

If Josh Hamilton had been good, but had a drug relapse, what would the response be?

[AngelsSurfer]

I have talked to a lot of people around baseball (players, media, etc) in the last 2 days and haven't found anyone who believes the Angels handled this properly.

The only people ok with it seem to be fans here.

If Josh Hamilton had been good, but had a drug relapse, what would the response be?

The response would be very different - we all know that, I think.

 

The thing is, though, I think if it were a player who had a low batting average, but was liked by fans, the response would also be very different. If someone like John McDonald, for instance, had been in this spot, I tend to think people still would have rallied for him because he was such a beloved player.

 

I think the ire directed toward Hamilton isn't so much about a single use of cocaine as it is about how it seems to tie in with his overall attitude. His performance and his comments in the press have made it very much seem that he doesn't give a shit and that he's just coasting. Whether that is true or not, that's how he's coming across to the general public. Even BEFORE this, people didn't like him too much. From all outward appearances it seems that there's a player who has a bad attitude who is getting over on the Angels. He's getting paid a lot, he's taking a valuable roster spot that might be better used by other players, and he's doing absolutely nothing on the field to help the team. And with this decision he's seemed to get over on everyone again.

 

So is the response different because of who Hamilton is? Absolutely, but I'd also suggest that he's not done anything on or off the field to endear himself to fans, so this is a problem that is somewhat of his own making.

Edited April 8, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[Blarg]

I have talked to a lot of people around baseball (players, media, etc) in the last 2 days and haven't found anyone who believes the Angels handled this properly.

The only people ok with it seem to be fans here.

If Josh Hamilton had been good, but had a drug relapse, what would the response be?

Same as if was good and busted for roids, he's an ahole.

[Jobu]

I have talked to a lot of people around baseball (players, media, etc) in the last 2 days and haven't found anyone who believes the Angels handled this properly.

The only people ok with it seem to be fans here.

If Josh Hamilton had been good, but had a drug relapse, what would the response be?

What makes your sources less biased than us?

[Jeff Fletcher]

What makes your sources less biased than us?

Just showing how your connection to baseball affects your perspective.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

I have talked to a lot of people around baseball (players, media, etc) in the last 2 days and haven't found anyone who believes the Angels handled this properly.

The only people ok with it seem to be fans here.

If Josh Hamilton had been good, but had a drug relapse, what would the response be?

Thank you for the internal information. All these speculators here believe the Angels can't do wrong. They wronged Hamilton in this case. Olberman, Rosenfield, and every other guy in the business have a legit beef.

Thanks Fletch.

[mtangelsfan]

Thank you for the internal information. All these speculators here believe the Angels can't do wrong. They wronged Hamilton in this case. Olberman, Rosenfield, and every other guy in the business have a legit beef.

Thanks Fletch.

 

First part I agree with, second part I don't.  These guys are acting like the Angels cut Hamilton or literally pushed in front of a train. 

 

 

Many reporters believe they are the only ones who should be able to talk poorly about players. 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Just showing how your connection to baseball affects your perspective.

Well said. I'm not a fan like I was when I was 12. Now on my early 40s, I see a much bigger picture and don't make my judgements based on the numbers of a baseball card.

Employee rights, combined with substance abuse difficulties are big factors here. Contracts are all a gamble. Johan Santana (first one I could think of) probably was pretty horrible for his contract with the Mets. Guy was hurt, maybe had head issues, who knows. But when someone doesn't live up to the big big mega deals, fans go bonkers.

There's a lot of judging of Hamilton, how he doesn't get along with the team, isolates himself, is a jerk etc.

None of these people know him or have spoken to him.

The guy could live in constant fear every minute of his life, be socially awkward, who knows?

Many have crapped on Albert. Numbers didn't live up to contract. If he was popped for PEDs, this place would call for the firing squad.

[Blarg]

Just showing how your connection to baseball affects your perspective.

 

And their connection to the press means they have to watch what they say and stay in line with what the politically correct protocol mandates and their own self interest. I would think that in a situation like this where Rosenthal and others are wagging their finger at the Angels for actually making a statement that wasn't all rosy about a player that is violating their trust, that the sources you are talking to would not want to be on the hot seat being in agreement with both the Angels and the commissioners office that also commented that the arbitrators ruling was misguided. 

 

And there is one of the points I would like to make, the commissioners office commented on the ruling and was in disagreement. So where is the conflict that the Angels front office have the same perspective? It is duplicitous that the leadership of baseball can comment on the decision negatively and one of the parties directly involved can't be of the same mindset without receiving scorn from media that have been waiting to pounce on this story since they uprooted it months ago.

[yk9001]

Based on the way I read it, the rules are pretty black and white in favor of the arbitrator's ruling. So anyone that disagrees with his ruling is a moron. This isn't the transfer rule we're talking about.

 

Hamilton botched that one as well.

[Jobu]

One almost wonders if it was Dipoto himself fixing Josh's morning coffee.

Oh good lord.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

And their connection to the press means they have to watch what they say and stay in line with what the politically correct protocol mandates and their own self interest. I would think that in a situation like this where Rosenthal and others are wagging their finger at the Angels for actually making a statement that wasn't all rosy about a player that is violating their trust, that the sources you are talking to would not want to be on the hot seat being in agreement with both the Angels and the commissioners office that also commented that the arbitrators ruling was misguided.

And there is one of the points I would like to make, the commissioners office commented on the ruling and was in disagreement. So where is the conflict that the Angels front office have the same perspective? It is duplicitous that the leadership of baseball can comment on the decision negatively and one of the parties directly involved can't be of the same mindset without receiving scorn from media that have been waiting to pounce on this story since they uprooted it months ago.

I'm sure Fletch will have his own opinion on this, since my work in sports was limited. But cops told me stuff off the record all the time. They over talk about cases. - stand at a crime scene and talk with a robbery homicide detective and he will always give you his take. It isn't for air, but it gives you a real look at his expert assessment. Of course if he isn't authorized to talk, the chief or sheriff, their Media dept. get all worked over about it.

But the way I hear Fletch saying is, in casual conversation he's getting off the record, these people had that opinion. I doubt Trout is ever going to say, "yeah Arte, Jerry and Carpino are jacked up," especially when he's brokering new drink sponsorship deals with the team.

I'm sure once these guys got to know Fletch, they know he's not going to bust them for stuff. It's not Simers. Fletch isn't posting blind items. So there's really no reason for these guys to be guarded around him.

Edited April 8, 2015 by SOTO

[Jeff Fletcher]

I was referring to the off the record conversations. I obviously haven't used any of this because people wouldn't be publicly critical.

As for the difference between MLB's statement and the Angels, the Angels are Hamilton's team. They are supposed to be on his side.

Say an umpire blows a call. MLB can say this umpire blew the call and the wrong team won. But the team then shouldn't say "we're sorry the umpire gave us a break. We should have lost that game."

That's how weird it is for a team to say "our player should have been suspended."

[Jobu]

That's how weird it is for a team to say "our player should have been suspended."

Did they say that, or is that an inference from Carpino's first statement ("defies logic")?

[Blarg]

The difference in your analogy is that MLB can overturn the call (see Pine Tar incident and coincidentally the Angels role in it) and attempt to make it right. Making Lee McPhail a far better Commissioner than Manfred.

[Jay]

None of this matters now.  Barring a miracle the Angels will be eating Hamilton's contract.

[QuinlansMinion]

I keep reading this thread as "Angels look like DBacks today."  

[Blarg]

Neither did A-Rod and yet...

[ten ocho recon scout]

I keep reading this thread as "Angels look like DBacks today."

well, since dipoto took over....

[OregonLAA]

People are still talking in this thread? All of baseball has forgotten about Hamilton already

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

@Alden_Gonzalez: Manfred: "I have no reason to believe that the Angels did anything inappropriate."

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

@Alden_Gonzalez: Manfred believes Hamilton, #Angels will "work together." "I don't think it's as serious a problem on a go-forward basis as it might appear."