US Little League champs stripped of title

[Lou]

I tend to place the blame on the adults in these kinds of things.

 

that's probably because they were at fault

[Troll Daddy]

What Lou fails to realize is the league expanded the boundaries. The problem is they failed to notify LL for approval. I doubt that these kids understood the politics of the situation.

LL originally looked into the situation after it was brought to their attention and was ok with it. It took a second look and some investigating after being pressured by the other league.

LL finally made the correct call.

[Lou]

guess again

 

" Little League CEO Stephen Keener said Wednesday that Jackie Robinson West annexed portions of three neighboring leagues on a boundary map it submitted to Little League officials, and did so without the permission of those leagues. The map was redrawn and backdated, he said." 

 

they obviously cheated

 

you are ok with that

 

i am not

 

there's really no reason to continue with this

[Lou]

one last thing....

 

before tears are shed for those players whose only chance to get noticed was doing well in the LLWS tournament :

 

" Jackie Robinson West has been a powerhouse since the 1980s, sending squads of 11- and 12-year-olds on deep tournament runs."

 

"Chris Janes, vice president of the Evergreen Park Athletic Association, had seen one of his teams demolished by Jackie Robinson West 43-2 last year. As the squad made its World Series run, he noticed that some communities outside of Jackie Robinson’s residential boundaries were declaring themselves the hometowns of some Jackie Robinson players."

 

 

something tells me good sportsmanship is another lesson that needed to be taught to JRW

 

and with that, i bid you all adieu 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

They were stripped of the title. They deserved to be. End of story.

[Ohtaniland]

From the snack shack to the draft, little leagues across the nation are rigged with loopholes, politics and favoritism. The kids are just pawns in the game. Shameful indeed.

[2112]

So it's them or nobody, with no credit given to any of the teams they illegally competed against. Got it. That's much better.

The Nevada officials said that. Sorry. They wanted the right thing to be done. I'll look for a link.

[mtangelsfan]

You don't honestly think 11 and 12 year olds in the inner city are privvy to the exact details of the district borders, or to the home addresses of every member of their team? Or that they know all of the thousands of kids in the greater Chicago area who play baseball? The GCA is a huge place; these kids wouldn't be hanging out in the neighborhood or going to school together even if the districting were correct. Not to mention that it's a place where people do move around a lot so it's actually reasonable for new kids to show up midyear.

 

IMHO it's not justified to think that children premeditated this cheating. If it's a situation like Danny Almonte where he was 15 and was told to say he was 12? Yeah, that's on him, because he knows how old he is. In this case? Absolutely not.

 

When I was 12 and on a sports team, if a new kid showed up on the team, my reaction would have been "well, he was allowed on the team. The coach let him be here. It must be okay." They league changed the borders; the kids who played and their parents were told that those borders were correct. Why would they have had any reason to question that? Kids at that age trust the adults around them to do the right thing. They are taught to listen to their coaches and to trust that their coaches are doing right by them and there's nothing here that would have made a kid think otherwise.

 

Should the adults in this case be banned from LL forever? Yes, of course. But this isn't on the kids.

 

are you trying to argue that kids from the inner city are not as intelligent as other kids?  Are you trying to argue that they should be held to a lower standard because they are from the inner city?

[Troll Daddy]

guess again

" Little League CEO Stephen Keener said Wednesday that Jackie Robinson West annexed portions of three neighboring leagues on a boundary map it submitted to Little League officials, and did so without the permission of those leagues. The map was redrawn and backdated, he said."

they obviously cheated

you are ok with that

i am not

there's really no reason to continue with this

Did I say I was ok with it? What I'm not ok with is you calling the kids cheaters.

You're such a drama queen.

[AngelsSurfer]

are you trying to argue that kids from the inner city are not as intelligent as other kids?  Are you trying to argue that they should be held to a lower standard because they are from the inner city?

 

Nice straw man there, and totally irrelevant to the issue at hand, especially since I'm from an inner city area originally myself. Please show me where I said anything about intelligence. Right, I didn't. It's pretty well accepted that kids from the inner city may not have access to the same resources that kids from affluent neighborhoods might. For instance, relevant to this case, they may not have access to computers or get to travel outside their neighborhoods very much, and thus be unfamiliar with other areas around Chicago. Next question.

 

There's no "standard" to be held to here. A kid from Newport Beach with his own home computer isn't going to be sitting there with a map of the districts and a directory with all of the players' home addresses either. There's absolutely no reason a kid would have any reason to worry about where another kid on their team is living and if they are there legally or not. In just about any kid's mind, the coaches put them on the team, they obviously belong there .End of story.

Edited February 16, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[AngelsSurfer]

who thinks this was a premeditated ploy by the kids ?

There seems to be some blame on these children for not knowing or questioning who was on their team, which would suggest they went along with the cheating and were somehow responsible for it.

 

And let's just take a hypothetical scenario here, going along the lines that the kids should have noticed. It's not justifiable, but we will run with it for a minute.

Little Jimmy, who is on the JRLL, notices that Charlie is now playing on the all-star team. He's never seen Charlie and he doesn't think he belongs there.

 

1. He goes to the coach: coach says "no, Charlie belongs here. He just moved to our area" End of story. Except that the coach and Jimmy's teammates now think Jimmy is showing poor sportsmanship and isn't being a team player because he tried to get another kid knocked out of the team.

2. He goes to the parents, who then go to the coach. See #1.

3. The parents take it further. Since ALL the kids on the Little League team are supposed to support each other, Little Jimmy and his parents are now accused of being sore losers and showing poor sportsmanship because Jimmy didn't make the all-star team and Charlie did. This is especially true after the league produces the map they have made with the boundaries that make Charlie's participation legitimate and show it to the parents, making their complaint seem like sour grapes.

4. Oh, and after all of this, Charlie's still on the team.

 

So this is about the adults. Not the kids. At all. Nobody's saying it was right of them to change the boundaries; of course it wasn't. Of course that should be punished. But the kids are the collateral damage here.

Edited February 16, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[mtangelsfan]

Nice straw man there, and totally irrelevant to the issue at hand, especially since I'm from an inner city area originally myself. Please show me where I said anything about intelligence. Right, I didn't. It's pretty well accepted that kids from the inner city may not have access to the same resources that kids from affluent neighborhoods might. Go into a school in Lennox and then go to one in Beverly Hills if you'd like to verify this concept. Next question.

 

There's no "standard" to be held to here. A kid from Newport Beach with his own home computer isn't going to be sitting there with a map of the districts and a directory with all of the players' home addresses either. There's absolutely no reason a kid would have any reason to worry about where another kid on their team is living and if they are there legally or not. In just about any kid's mind, the coaches put them on the team, they obviously belong there .End of story.

 

If it has no bearing then why did you make the comment about them being inner city kids?  Everyone should be held to the same exact standard.  

 

Lots of kids suffered from the cheating decided upon by the adults, should some matter more than others?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I don't recall anyone saying that the kids had anything to do with it. Obviously the adults who put the team together felt the need to load up on the road to Williamsport and they added ineligible players. I expressed sympathy for the kids who were cut to make room for the "ringers", and the players of the teams they had to compete against, who did not engage in the same behavior.

 

I also feel badly for the Jackie Robinson West kids, who believed that they had accomplished something special only to have it taken away from them because of the actions of the adults who led them. That said, I believe that the gesture by the Mayor of Chicago to buy them "championship rings" sends the message that cheating doesn't matter as long as you win. That is not the kind of life lesson that these kids should be taught.

[AngelsSurfer]

If it has no bearing then why did you make the comment about them being inner city kids?  Everyone should be held to the same exact standard.  

 

Lots of kids suffered from the cheating decided upon by the adults, should some matter more than others?

I explained what I said in my comment above, if you don't want to read it, it's not my problem. You're trying to twist my words and misinterpret what I said; I'm not responding to you anymore.

Edited February 16, 2015 by AngelsSurfer

[mtangelsfan]

I explained what I said in my comment above, if you don't want to read it, it's not my problem. You're trying to twist my words and misinterpret what I said; I'm not responding to you anymore.

 

Don't forget your ball.

[stormngt]

I don't recall anyone saying that the kids had anything to do with it. Obviously the adults who put the team together felt the need to load up on the road to Williamsport and they added ineligible players. I expressed sympathy for the kids who were cut to make room for the "ringers", and the players of the teams they had to compete against, who did not engage in the same behavior.

 

I also feel badly for the Jackie Robinson West kids, who believed that they had accomplished something special only to have it taken away from them because of the actions of the adults who led them. That said, I believe that the gesture by the Mayor of Chicago to buy them "championship rings" sends the message that cheating doesn't matter as long as you win. That is not the kind of life lesson that these kids should be taught.

 

Well said

[Jim]

It would be interesting to see how the stacked Chicago team fairs when playing a similarly put together team from So Cal? But we won't because that would be cheating.   

[19HALO71]

As the Manager of the 2002 Southern California Champions out of West Anaheim, I can tell you that as you progressed the documentation requirements got even more strict. In 2002, the official team roster had to be presented to the hosting officials by the league president at every level. Based on the comments, I can only rationalize that the parents of the kids that did not make the team were the ones that blew the whistle.