Jump to content
  • Welcome to AngelsWin.com

    AngelsWin.com - THE Internet Home for Angels fans! Unraveling Angels Baseball ... One Thread at a Time.

    Register today to join the most interactive online Angels community on the net!

    Once you're a member you'll see less advertisements. Become a Premium member and you won't see any ads! 

     

Angels Official Website: Angels officially sign Cuban infielder Baldoquin


Recommended Posts

"We're going to let him tell us when it's time to move, but he's a pretty advanced player," Dipoto said at the Winter Meetings in early December. "He's a confident kid who understands what he is, what he can do."

 

 

Okay, now that has me excited. That's almost as good as it gets for compliments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 years from now we have Green at 3B, Baldoquin at SS, Yarbrough at 2B, Cron at 1B and Bandy at C. That's a young and talented infield.

I'm with Saltzer, why not Moncada at 3b.....like trading Howie, the solution to the "too old, too much payroll, weak farm system" dilema is to think outside the box...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Moncada, Baldoquin, Yarbrough, Cron INF would work, although Cron needs defensive work.  He and Pujols could split 1B and DH spots by 2017.

Then Sherman Johnson, Green, Rutledge, and Featherston would be battling for utility spots. 

Bandy and Perez behind the plate

Nice depth to have

Edited by Angel Oracle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Signing Moncada is going to cost a huge penalty. He's technically an Amateur, unlike recent Cuban defectors Jose Abreu and Rusney Castillo or Yasmany Tomas who are all considered professionals.

 

Moncada is like Baldoquin, and subject to a 100% tax. This will help keep his price lower than that of the above three names, but the total outlay may be closer to the same, and that means something like 50-90 million dollar investment even though his contract will only be for 25-40 Million. 

 

He like Puig and Soler before him is not a finished product, though he has great potential. 

 

I wonder if people understand that this is a gigantic investment, which would be one of the highest investments the Angels ever made in a player, due to the tax. Unless this kid is Trout-esque, I doubt this is going to happen.

 

If he say signed for 7 years and $45 M (the max I think he'll get) it would really be an $90 M investment… which means that only Pujols, Trout, Hamilton, Hunter would ever have received larger investments, while Guerrero, Weaver, Wilson, and Mo Vaughan would all be in the same neighborhood.

 

Think about who these guys are or were when they were signed.

 

Pujols is probably the greatest hitter of the 2000's. Several MVP's and WS Championships.

Hamilton was a huge bat who'd won an MVP.

Hunter was the best defensive CF in baseball who was also a threat with the bat.

Trout is well, Mike Trout.

Guerrero won an MVP in his first year here. 

Weaver was an Ace with 5 years of experience in the bigs.

Wilson was coming off a low 3's ERA season.

 

Vaughan was coming off a .337/.402/.591 season in Boston, was a former MVP. He flopped.

Also, they traded for this kind of a contract with Wells. Don't forget that. He flopped.

 

If the contract outlay for Moncada was something around 6 years and 25-30M, then you can maybe see it happening. The $50-60 M outlay puts him with contracts for GMJ, Tim Salmon, Garrett Anderson, and Colon.

 

Still those four were large investments, and three of the four panned out well. 

 

So Moncada is not likely to end up with the Angels as it does not fit with their history or current budgets.

Edited by Hubs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is why I want to see Moncada here, but would understand if he isn't.

It all comes down to how high someone else is willing to go, meaning how willing they are to pay the 100% tax. 

 

If I was Arte, I would go as high as $25 million total over say 4 years, two less years in the hopes of keeping the total outlay down some. 

That's $50 million for 4 years, including the tax.    A risk, yes, but if it pays off, a great one to take; and if not paying off as high as expected, not so much lost compared to what they paid Hackilton.  

Edited by Angel Oracle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Salaries have gone way up in recent years. Especially for international players. Comparing guys signing today with guys who signed contracts a decade or two ago is pointless. How much did Ted Williams make?

Posting Vaughn's offensive numbers during the height of the steroid era is equally as futile. Mancado won't be a big fat first basemen and offense was much higher back then too.

Daiske and Darvish got huge deals even with big posting fees. With the success of recent Cubans like Puig and Abreu combined with his scouting reports it's not unprecedented.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Salaries have gone way up in recent years. Especially for international players. Comparing guys signing today with guys who signed contracts a decade or two ago is pointless. How much did Ted Williams make?

Posting Vaughn's offensive numbers during the height of the steroid era is equally as futile. Mancado won't be a big fat first basemen and offense was much higher back then too.

Daiske and Darvish got huge deals even with big posting fees. With the success of recent Cubans like Puig and Abreu combined with his scouting reports it's not unprecedented.

 

Eater, I am only posting those contracts for comparison purposes. And none of the $80M plus guys save for Mo Vaughan were more than 7 years ago. So, to say they have gone way up in that time is to not understand the rules or the history. The Angels have spent more money on free agents recently, and contracts have gone up in the sport as a whole.

 

The contracts to Cuban players who were NOT subject to the new Amateur rules HAVE gone up, but these guys have played at Cuba's top professional league for years. Jose Abreu was signed as a guy just about to enter his prime. He was signed to a contract equivalent to guys coming from other countries professional leagues. (He hit 33 HR in just 66 games one season). 

 

These older (23+) Cubans are getting contracts equivalent to stars from Japan or Korea, and while the players coming from those leagues are typically pitchers, they get similar Major League contracts. They are expected to contribute very soon upon their arrival. They are not Amateurs. The Diamondbacks have Tomas a ton of Cash, the Red Sox did the same for Castillo, then you have the White Sox and Abreu. Another professional who fits in this category was Yoenis Cespedes who defected as a 26 year old, like Alexander Guerrero did..who also fits this category.

 

Recent Cuban defectors who would have been subject to the new rules implemented after the 2012 season, had they signed after that would have included Puig, Jorge Soler, Aroldis Chapman, etc. All signed for between 30 and $42 Million. 

 
However, The highest signing bonus ever paid to a guy who was subject to the new rules (which limits the payouts to international amateurs), was, wait for it…Roberto Baldoquin at $8 Million dollars.
 
So while it is tempting to compare Moncada to Abreu and Tomas, or even to Puig or Soler, no team has ever put out a signing bonus for a Cuban Player under the age of 23 (i.e. an Amateur) larger than $8 Million dollars. It is very likely some team breaks the bank on Moncada, to put the total outlay for contracts similar to Tomas, Castillo, or Abreu, and pay him then similarly to Puig, Soler, Chapman, and such. 
 
Yet I'd think that someone might sign him for as low as $15-$20M because it will cost them similarly (with the 100% tax) to unknown Cuban players like Puig. No one knew how he was going to do, and he started in the minors. Castillo and Tomas might start in the minors too, but probably not. More likely they will be expected to contribute, now just like Japanese stars that have been posted. 
 
Moncada is 19. He's not going to start in the majors immediately.
 
He did put up great numbers in Serie Nacional, but is he a real sure thing?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was talking more of the $50-60 million guys like Salmon, GA, Colon. I may be mistaken but aren't we even approaching a decade since signing Glad and 8 years on GMJ?

No one is a sure thing but based on the scouting reports if anyone is worth that money it's this kid. And I'd rather spend it on a 19 year old than a 30 year old whose best days are behind him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moncada is definitely talented, more so than Baldoquin. I can see the Angels signing him, but I think more likely he goes to a team on the East Coast.

 

I agree thought that the max outlay including the Tax should be in the $50-$60 M range. Not in the $100 M range as had been speculated. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...