Glass half full

[ten ocho recon scout]

Like most of you, im not a huge fan of this trade. Alvarez alone is hard to part with. Rondon was at best a few years away, but with aybars deal getting close to expiring, SS depth has been worrying me a bit lately.

That said, we did in fact just parlay a few questions into a legit strength. Tonights game was great timing to remind everyone how important the pen is.

The good news (to me), is that we just went toe to toe with almost as good of a pitcher as we're likely to face here on out. Seattles offense is weak, but it shows that as long as we can hang pitching wise, we have a shot against anyone.

Its already been mentioned, but having a real pen allows us to limit innings for our entire staff, but most importantly, to richards and skaggs. It also lets us pull the plug on cj when hes being a douche in the 3rd and 4th.

Again, I dont like what we gave up. But this really did improve the team. We now have not only a 9th inning guy, but a shutdown 8th inning guy as well....and for the first time in forever, we have shutdown options for the 6th and 7th. Morin in the 7th is pretty ****ing rad to set up smith, to set up street.

We also have a loogy again, and if grilli can maintain and pitch in the 2cd half roughly like his year last year.....this team is just about complete (though I still wish we had another front end rotation guy).

Anyway, put a pube over that one, and watch this team rock the 2cd half

Edited July 19, 2014 by ten ocho recon scout

[QuinlansMinion]

I would have preferred Price too, but I think the rotation is good enough to win the division now that our bullpen is excellent.  Richards and Weaver should be solid enough as a 1-2.  I dont think theres many 3rd starters in the league I wouldnt like our chances against.  

[DMVol]

It is a classic win now trade....I'm torn... I want to win big while we can too but, as a long term fan, I know where this thing is headed....in a couple of years, we're stuck w/ bad contracts and no farm....

[Inside Pitch]

Torn is a good word.  Definitely a win now mode trade.

[RallyMo]

How many of us thought that we'd be in win now or even later mode back in February?

The pessimism on this board was unrelenting.

This is now a really, REALLY good baseball team at the major league level.

Let's hope they win now. I think they can.

GO ANGELS!

[ten ocho recon scout]

Good point rally.

I said it a few days back, id rather boost the mlb team than hold on to someone non essential who might be up in 2 years. Im not happy we gave up so much....but im glad we just gave ourselves some insurance too. If we sputter down the road, im glad we at least gave this team the benefit of believing its good enough to give it a boost instead of waiting around

Still am not happy about alvarez, but hopefully we can keep developing guys like him.

[Angelsjunky]

I could have lived with it if Rondon wasn't included. Now we're left with Stamets as the future at shortstop and he looks like another all-glove, no-bat type.

[Angelsjunky]

Yes, this improves the team this year and probably next (Alvarez could be very good by then). But the "win now" philosophy is incredibly short-sighted.

[Angel Oracle]

Wasn't Dipoto though brought in to win AND build the farm?

Trading 5 of your top 15 prospects inside of two weeks isn't how to build a solid farm.

I grant that Lindsey is more easily replaced (by Green and Yarbrough plus 2B are easier to find).

I even grant that Alvarez MAY not be as hard to lose, since they did get Gott in the trade. Gott may well be at the very next level down from Alvarez.

Losing Rondon and Morris eats up depth where we don't have it though, at SS and starting pitching.

Again I have to ask. What NL pitcher came over to the AL during the season in recent years, and succeeded to the extent that this trade dictates what they expect of Street?

Remember that SD pitchers routinely have ERAs in the 1.00s and 2.00s. It's not that simple in the AL.

Also, doesn't Street only top out at 89-90?

Aside from the delivery, is he not too similar to Smith?

I hope they don't plan on Smith and Street pitching back-to-back. The hitters are going to get comfortable.

Part of Smith's recent dominance may come in fact from following Jepsen's gas and slider.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[RallyMo]

Wasn't Dipoto though brought in to win AND build the farm?

Trading 5 of your top 15 prospects inside of two weeks isn't how to build a solid farm.

I grant that Lindsey is more easily replaced (by Green and Yarbrough plus 2B are easier to find).

I even grant that Alvarez MAY not be as hard to lose, since they did get Gott in the trade. Gott may well be at the very next level down from Alvarez.

Losing Rondon and Morris eats up depth where we don't have it though, at SS and starting pitching.

Again I have to ask. What NL pitcher came over to the AL during the season in recent years, and succeeded to the extent that this trade dictates what they expect of Street?

Remember that SD pitchers routinely have ERAs in the 1.00s and 2.00s. It's not that simple in the AL.

Also, doesn't Street only top out at 89-90?

Aside from the delivery, is he not too similar to Smith?

I hope they don't plan on Smith and Street pitching back-to-back. The hitters are going to get comfortable.

Part of Smith's recent dominance may come in fact from following Jepsen's gas and slider.

I see that when you violate your attention whore self bans, you do it with unparalleled vigor and conviction.

And, to answer your question about NL pitchers coming over and being extremely successful immediately, you need look no further than the guy we just sent to the Pirates for Grilli. He was absolutely lights out when he got here. What happened in the years after sucked, though.

Back to you, banmeister.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I could have lived with it if Rondon wasn't included. Now we're left with Stamets as the future at shortstop and he looks like another all-glove, no-bat type.

as weird as it sounds, id almost prefer that. I figure our offense can sustain another 2-3 years (plus we're getting stanton...lol), so im glad we at least have decent defense in tact (in theory)

[Angel Oracle]

I see that when you violate your attention whore self bans, you do it with unparalleled vigor and conviction.

And, to answer your question about NL pitchers coming over and being extremely successful immediately, you need look no further than the guy we just sent to the Pirates for Grilli. He was absolutely lights out when he got here. What happened in the years after sucked, though.

Back to you, banmeister.

Regarding first paragraph, judge away.

Regarding second paragraph, he also didn't cost 4 of the top 15 prospects, just one top 10 in Amarista and maybe one top 25 in Roach.

And that was in a 7th/8th inning role for a while with not nearly the same pressure.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[arch stanton]

I'm wondering what everybody's waiting for. What is so enticing about this future you speak of? Giving up 3 "mights" and a "could be" for a" possible" and a "definite"is ok with me.  Right here in 2014 we have ourselves a kickass baseball team. Playing in a one gamer isn't optimum but waiting around for optimum gets old. The very reason we're not already in 1st place is the bullpen. That should no longer be an issue, right? No reason this team right here doesn't continue its march to the World Series. 

 

Street's reputation since college is that he's fearless. That's a good thing. He's also been the most sure thing in the 9th for the past 3 years. 

[Docwaukee]

Don't get me wrong, I am totally pumped up about this team.

 

But I already was. 

 

This team was firing on all cylinders.  A very well-rounded team with no glaring holes. 

 

I get the whole 'win now' thing, but we were winning now.  And the farm system was coming around.  Not good by any means, but certainly getting much better. 

 

Sure the addition of Street improves the team, but it also increases expectations and makes the future a little more uncertain.

 

My glass is half full, but someone just moved it to the edge of the table. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Glass is half full, but the ice already melted and you need a new one?

[Tyler]

How many of us thought that we'd be in win now or even later mode back in February?

 

 

Me

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just trying to be positive, because I know the trade isnt ideal. But anyone whos watched this team over the last decade knows that the bullpen has been the one consistent when we won or lost.

We won with decent SP and grea bats in 02. We won with good sp and bats and a great bullpen in 04. Good pitching medicore bats (good pen) in 05. We had great pitching (sp and pen) towards the 2cd half of the 2000's, but once we lost franky and shields we started getting shakey (when we finally had really good sp and bats).

2012 could have been a lot different with a real pen. 13 we had a ton of problems, the pen being rhe biggest.

My point being, this move want ideal (in what we lost, and that the sp depth is still a ?), but this is the most complete team since 2009. For all the hype of 2012, the pen still sucked.

This can come back to bite, but I think its going to help more than hurt

[DMVol]

....Street's reputation since college is that he's fearless. That's a good thing. He's also been the most sure thing in the 9th for the past 3 years. 

I would say the surest thing since KRod in 08...We've had decent stretches with closers....Frieri was lights out for the first few months after we got him in 2012 and Fuentes was serviceable until late in 09.....but Street is legit....

[Stradling]

So I'm probably the most half full guy on here. This trade is exactly what it looks like, a trade for now. We now have a LEGIT bull pen. You can say we did before ever sense the Frieri/Grilli trade, but now it's even better and deeper. This won't be considered overkill once the playoffs come and you have to have your pen throw up zeros. I have a feeling the team didn't like what ever little injury Alvarez had or were just higher on Bedrock than AJ, or felt AJ was expendable with the emergence of Reynolds. I didn't like giving up Rondon but with all the arms we've been drafting maybe Dipoto sees a chance to trade one of those for another teams SS prospect. I'll focus on this year and next years team with this move and I'll like what I'm seeing.

[DMVol]

I could have lived with it if Rondon wasn't included. Now we're left with Stamets as the future at shortstop and he looks like another all-glove, no-bat type.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder but I'd much have kept Alvarez than Rondon....Pitching, pitching, pitching...always seems harder to build a pitching staff than an everyday lineup, at least for us....

[ten ocho recon scout]

If bedrock works out as projected, I think we're alright. Not 'ideal' (was hoping morin/bedrock/alvarez were the future), but even going into next year we have a pretty deep pen

[tomsred]

Next year, when we have World Series Winner hangover, we can trade one of our veterans to someone who needs one at a critical position for 3 prospects including a SS.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tomsred

[Blarg]

How many of us thought that we'd be in win now or even later mode back in February?

The pessimism on this board was unrelenting.

This is now a really, REALLY good baseball team at the major league level.

Let's hope they win now. I think they can.

GO ANGELS!

 

Typical unicorns and rainbows speech from the RallyMoreno ministry of misinformation. I will be tuning in to radio AO for the real trade news.

[Cdaniel]

We have gone pitcher heavy in the last couple drafts. I wouldn't be surprised if we went for a stud SS with our first pick in next years draft. Who that is I have no idea but if they are at college level they won't need but a year in the minors (hopefully) to get acclimated.

[fan_since79]

Wasn't Dipoto though brought in to win AND build the farm?

Trading 5 of your top 15 prospects inside of two weeks isn't how to build a solid farm.

I grant that Lindsey is more easily replaced (by Green and Yarbrough plus 2B are easier to find).

I even grant that Alvarez MAY not be as hard to lose, since they did get Gott in the trade. Gott may well be at the very next level down from Alvarez.

Losing Rondon and Morris eats up depth where we don't have it though, at SS and starting pitching.

Again I have to ask. What NL pitcher came over to the AL during the season in recent years, and succeeded to the extent that this trade dictates what they expect of Street?

Remember that SD pitchers routinely have ERAs in the 1.00s and 2.00s. It's not that simple in the AL.

Also, doesn't Street only top out at 89-90?

Aside from the delivery, is he not too similar to Smith?

I hope they don't plan on Smith and Street pitching back-to-back. The hitters are going to get comfortable.

Part of Smith's recent dominance may come in fact from following Jepsen's gas and slider.

 

So, you're thinking of Smith as the 7th inning guy, followed by Jepsen and Street?

 

Interesting.