Bourjos a stop gap in STL ?

[Jim]

Funny that you all needed to wait until another GM told you what Ive told you for years.

And as you plug Peter into the other 28 teams lineups his value changes, along with the opinions of those teams GM's. On our team, he was the best defensive CF player we had. For those of us who value defense right up there with offense, he was a gem.

[Stradling]

I'm guessing if there is an injury to an outfielder Howie might see some time out in left.

[xboom28x]

Shuck will play in LF before Howie

[Mile High Dreams]

And as you plug Peter into the other 28 teams lineups his value changes, along with the opinions of those teams GM's. On our team, he was the best defensive CF player we had. For those of us who value defense right up there with offense, he was a gem.

 

Defense only helps you when you can stay healthy enough to stay on the field and bat at least your weight....which he did neither.

[arch stanton]

If we had to have a weakness I prefer it be 4th OF as opposed to everyday 3B or pitching staff.

[NrM]

Since we were planning on trading Trumbo, Bourjos was not our #4 OF.  Calhoun could have played DH.

 

I don't like the trade.  Trading Trumbo made the PB trade look even worse.  However, if Freese ends up playing well for the Halo's than Dipoto will come out looking like a genius. 

 

BTW everyone who argues that PB was injury prone looks ignorant.  He had one season where we ended up on the DL.  That was because he got hit by a pitch.

 

PB basically was screwed over by Sosh....and I like Sosh, but he was screwed over.  PB was the best player on the team en 2009 (shows how bad the team was).  In 2010 he platooned with Wells and Abreu and he slumped with limited playing time.  The need to play Abreu and Wells over him was absolutely stupid.  Then, when the team became desperate, they moved Trumbo to OF and Trout was promoted.

 

I am willing to bet PB plays in at least one All Star game.  

 

I think you mean 2011. Kendrick was better than Bourjos in 2011 though.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Poozy

[wopphil]

Jeff Fletcher, not to deviate too much here, but how interested in Garza do you believe the F.O. is? Do you believe they are pushing hard for him?

[YouthofToday]

Next year, PB replacement is not Mike Trout. It is Raul Ibanez.

Huh?

[Jeff Fletcher]

They are very interested in Garza, but basically waiting to see how he interested he is in them.

My impression is he's stalling, waiting to see what happens with Tanaka.

[Tyler]

Tell them to save the cash. They'll need the flexibility at the deadline. Offer Kendrick for Jordan Zimmerman and roll with Green till Lindsey is ready.

[Stradling]

I would trade Howie for Zimmerman, and I really like Howie.

[jshep]

So would I.

 

Harder to see why the Nationals would though. Zimmermann is a better player, pitching certainly appears to be valued higher than other assets at this juncture(other than that weird Fister trade), and they don't have a glaring need.

[Tyler]

I think the Nationals will be looking to move Ryan Zimmerman over to first at some point this season. Rendon will slide over to 3rd, and Laroche will be gone after this season. J. Zimmerman and Kendrick both become free agents at the same time ('16). They have Strasburg, Gonzalez, Fister, Detwiler, Ohlendorf, with Tanner Roark ready and top prospect AJ Cole right behind him. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

I just don't think people get the fact that Bourjos was not going to be the halos CFer at all unless Trout got injured and if that happened, the team is hosed anyway. 

 

The org was done moving Trout back and forth.  So even as a 4th OFer, Bourjos wasn't going to play CF.  His value comes from being a CFer.  If he doesn't play there, he can't increase his value. 

 

Ergo to for thus, he was never going to be any more valuable as a halo than he was the day we moved him for Freese. 

 

Yes, they sold low. Yes, they f'd up and didn't trade him sooner.  Maybe they could have gone a different route a traded him for a high-A prospect so they didn't have to give up Grichuk as well.  But they saw a hole on the 2014 team and they patched it with a player whose value was what it was and wasn't going to get any better. 

 

Trading from a point of redundancy is a good way to fill holes, and it makes sense, but be damn certain that the other team knows the player you are trading has less value to you because you have no way to maximize their value.  What you get in return is somewhere between what the player is actually worth and what they are worth to your team. 

 

I don't disagree. There is definitely a logic to the Bourjos trade. I mean, on paper even the Vernon Wells deal made the Angels a better team. The issue is cost, and IMO yet another example of the Angels drastically overvaluing other teams players and undervaluing some of their own. I can't entirely fault them, they played the hand they were dealt. The future will decide how the trade is ultimately viewed.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Does anyone truly believe that Grichuk would be a more valuable player for the Angels than Salas over the next 2 seasons? I thought it was pretty clear that we're gearing up for a run right now.

 

We've been only concerned with 'winning now' since 2010.

[Brent Maguire]

Nobody is saying Grichuk is going to be great. I'm assuming most people are thinking that trading away prospects is putting the Angels in a further hole from developing a good farm system again.

With that being said, I personally don't think Grichuk will be a good player. I think he'll potentially be a 4th outfielder.

And at this point, the farm system is terrible anyways. All the Angels need is one great draft and the farm system starts to develop a bit.

[beatlesrule]

If you think 1-2 win 22-year-old players grow on trees then be my guest.  We gave up a good piece.

 

Keep whining about it.  Maybe the Cardinals will give him back to you as a Christmas present.

[Brent Maguire]

I think the Nationals will be looking to move Ryan Zimmerman over to first at some point this season. Rendon will slide over to 3rd, and Laroche will be gone after this season. J. Zimmerman and Kendrick both become free agents at the same time ('16). They have Strasburg, Gonzalez, Fister, Detwiler, Ohlendorf, with Tanner Roark ready and top prospect AJ Cole right behind him. 

It's actually not as lopsided as it may appear. Zimmerman has settled in as a nice 3-3.5 WAR pitcher. 

 

I don't think they would make the trade but if they really wanted a 2nd baseman, I think they would definitely be interested in Howie and potentially another prospect. 

[Docwaukee]

I don't disagree. There is definitely a logic to the Bourjos trade. I mean, on paper even the Vernon Wells deal made the Angels a better team. The issue is cost, and IMO yet another example of the Angels drastically overvaluing other teams players and undervaluing some of their own. I can't entirely fault them, they played the hand they were dealt. The future will decide how the trade is ultimately viewed.

the market valued Bourjos at what he was.  His perceived value or lack thereof came from injury and a lack of playing time that was created a couple years prior.  The ship had sailed on what his value should have been.  It was certainly an error in retrospect yet it wasn't going to get any better.   

 

And I would disagree that the Wells trade made the team better on paper. 

 

While I agree that the future will decide whether the trade of bourjos for freese was a good deal, it still means very little in determining what Bourjos value was on the open market and the fact that with the halos plan for him, his value wasn't going up.  

[Inside Pitch]

the market valued Bourjos at what he was.  His perceived value or lack thereof came from injury and a lack of playing time that was created a couple years prior.  The ship had sailed on what his value should have been.  It was certainly an error in retrospect yet it wasn't going to get any better.   

 

And I would disagree that the Wells trade made the team better on paper. 

 

While I agree that the future will decide whether the trade of bourjos for freese was a good deal, it still means very little in determining what Bourjos value was on the open market and the fact that with the halos plan for him, his value wasn't going up.  

 

IMO, as the off-season wore on and people signed, interest in Bourjos likely would have changed as was the case with Trumbo.   Everyone was very quick to defend Dipoto's quotes regarding what he wanted to do but at the same time they seemingly want to believe that nobody else had any interest in Bourjos.  My guess is opposing GMs were posturing as well, hoping to buy low.

 

The deal is done so, whatever.   Freese has shown the ability to get on base during his career.  The more guys who can get on base, the better.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Inside Pitch

[wopphil]

They are very interested in Garza, but basically waiting to see how he interested he is in them.

My impression is he's stalling, waiting to see what happens with Tanaka.

Do you think they are really willing to pony up the likely $150 mil or so it is going to take to sign Tanaka and pay the posting fee?