So umm.. thoughts on Jerry Dipoto

[Inside Pitch]

Yep I think there's a power struggle and someone is going to walk the plank. It will be interesting to see who Arte supports.

 

April 25th 2012 Mike Scioscia says that despite the Angels' offensive problems, Trout will stay for the time being at triple-A Salt Lake, where the outfielder is hitting .419. Scioscia said the Angels will promote Trout only if there is a significant role for him.

 

 

 

April 27th 2012 Bobby Abreu was sent packing by Jerry Dipoto and Mike Trout was called up.

 

 

So they created a significant role and brought him up.   Power struggle indeed.

[Inside Pitch]

trading Santana for absolutely nothing was still less bad than nearly trading Dan Haren for Carlos Marmol. That was what killed the whole "JeDi" mystique for me...

 

 

Honestly, that non-deal is what really made me start to second guess his thought processes.   Marmol is the exact opposite of a saber reliever.  Most saber guys view relievers as completely interchangeable and an area where a team can find value..  So Dipoto tries to trade for an expensive walk machine...   There was little chance for improvement there and a clear disconnect from saber-principles.

 

Dipoto gets three years from me --  if at the end of next year the farm system is still a joke and the MLB team has continued to slip. I look for someone with similar views and a better eye for putting a plan together.  

[Inside Pitch]

Then the next question should be, why do most hitters acquired from other teams seem to struggle here? 

The last good season an acquisition hitter had goes back at least 4 years to Abreu's 2009 season.

 

Park effects likely play into it a great deal more than people are willing to admit.   The other AL West parks, and the 40 or so games they play there likely also play into it.

[Inside Pitch]

Yep. Four years from now many MLB teams will have TV deals equal to, or significantly larger than the Angels' deal. Teams like the Phillies, Mets, Yankees, Dodgers and others could afford to beat Moreno in a bidding war for Trout if they wanted to, and in 2018, those teams will stand a better chance of contending than the Angels.

 

 

The bigger fear for me is that Trout is an East coast guy that grew up a Jeter and Phillies fan.   There is a very good possibility that those ties pull at his heartstrings.  No, he's not a douche, and that's all the more reason why he may want to go home.

The Angels really need to try to lock him, up long term before then -- a Posey type deal needs to be hammered out to try to keep him an Angel through his age 30-31 seasons IMO.

[mulwin444]

You guys are way over the top.

But it is entertaining though, isn't it?   

[yk9001]

Yep I think there's a power struggle and someone is going to walk the plank. It will be interesting to see who Arte supports.

 

April 25th 2012 Mike Scioscia says that despite the Angels' offensive problems, Trout will stay for the time being at triple-A Salt Lake, where the outfielder is hitting .419. Scioscia said the Angels will promote Trout only if there is a significant role for him.

 

 

 

April 27th 2012 Bobby Abreu was sent packing by Jerry Dipoto and Mike Trout was called up.

 

haha - what an eye for talent.  Goes hand in hand with sending 'lil Weave down for 'seasoning' for a couple starts his rookie year.

[Jim]

When some of us attended the @ngelsWin spring fanfest Jerry Dipoto was a guest speaker. He mentioned his aquisition of Chris Iannetta as one that he was very proud of so that was enough for me. I think he's in over his head. This team is no better than last years team. Oakland and Texas are much better suited to win the AL West. No other GM in MLB With common

sense gives Pujols and Hamilton those deals.

Jerry’s remarks that evening was equivalent to a comedian saying what a great city (insert the city he's playing in) this is as the crowd applauds. Jerry was talking to the ravenous geek fans of AW.com, all 100+. Saying anything negative about Mathis was sure to garner admiration from the group, and he knew it. A few points and counter points I have read in this thread are thought provoking, and could have merit, while some aren’t and don’t. But please, coming to a conclusion about Jerry the GM and his situation in Anaheim based on what he said to the audience that night is rather odd. No disrespect intended, it just seems silly. 

[Jim]

The bigger fear for me is that Trout is an East coast guy that grew up a Jeter and Phillies fan.   There is a very good possibility that those ties pull at his heartstrings.  No, he's not a douche, and that's all the more reason why he may want to go home.

The Angels really need to try to lock him, up long term before then -- a Posey type deal needs to be hammered out to try to keep him an Angel through his age 30-31 seasons IMO.

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. Assuming the granite planet is still spinning and all is right with the world, Trout will get big money when it's his time. Just like Weaver, Trout will no doubt want to play near his family in a place where he has fond memories. I for one will be quite surprised if Anaheim is that place. If the Angels are not able to sign Trout to a Posey type deal by spring 2015, it would be nearly unfathomable IMO to believe he would remain in Anaheim. 

[Mudville]

haha - what an eye for talent.  Goes hand in hand with sending 'lil Weave down for 'seasoning' for a couple starts his rookie year.

 

They didn't send him down for "seasoning" they sent him down because the starting rotation was filled when Colon came back from the DL and his brother Jeff was still on the roster. Once they traded Jeff, Jered was back in the 5 man and permanently because Colon went back to the DL. Dammit, all of this revisionist history is such bullshit from you guys.  

[yk9001]

They didn't send him down for "seasoning" they sent him down because the starting rotation was filled when Colon came back from the DL and his brother Jeff was still on the roster. Once they traded Jeff, Jered was back in the 5 man and permanently because Colon went back to the DL. Dammit, all of this revisionist history is such bullshit from you guys.  

 

We had this discussion three weeks ago.  The best the Scioscia nutswingers could come up with was "it was only one or two starts, what's the big deal?"

 

To even miss one start of who was your best starter at the time is ludicrous.  But that's Scioscia.

 

Edit: the "seasoning" line was the bullshiat Scioscia said at the time to justify sending down your best (albeit rookie) pitcher.

[Angel Oracle]

Park effects likely play into it a great deal more than people are willing to admit.   The other AL West parks, and the 40 or so games they play there likely also play into it.

I admit that the type of hitter they are can play into it too.

The gap hitting and patient hitters like Abreu and Matsui did just fine their first season, although Abreu struggled after that and Matsui didn't return.    And of course, Trout is flourishing as was Bourjos before being DL'd, both gap hitters with just enough power.

Maybe pure power hitting guys from other teams should not be pursued so much by the org from now on, and the focus being on real good gap hitters with just enough HR power and at least decent plate discipline?

Vlad was of course an exception, as he was truly exceptional at taking bad pitches all over the park.

[mtangelsfan]

We did have this discussion three weeks ago.  They didn't want to make the younger brother kick the older brother out of the rotation.  So they waited until he could be traded.

 

It seems to have worked out since Jered gave us a nice hometown discount.

 

Fans will be pissed about whatever fans will be pissed about even though they have absolutely zero knowledge of anything behind the scenes or in the locker room.  Stick with your belief that all the Angels staff are morons if you want.  Nothing is going to change the haters minds.

[yk9001]

Not all Angels staff are morons.  Just Scioscia.

[mtangelsfan]

LOL, right yk.  It makes a bunch of sense to make judgements when you have about 40% of the facts.

 

Hate away man.

[yk9001]

We did have this discussion three weeks ago.  They didn't want to make the younger brother kick the older brother out of the rotation. 

 

That's exactly what the did a couple weeks later when they called lil Weave back up.  They swapped places in the rotation.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2506041

 

 

So the same thing was accomplished, but a couple of weeks later.  Meanwhile, Jered wasted a couple starts in AAA.

[mtangelsfan]

Right, they designated big weave so they could trade him.  Meanwhile little weave could keep his arm strength up stay in a rotation.

[stormngt]

storm, it's not about the money for Trout, it's about winning. Trout is a class act but this is Albert's team. The Angels have made a huge expensive long term commitment to Albert Pujols. Mike Trout is the future star of MLB and can have a team built around him. He's that good and the money will come regardless.

That is fine in dandy in an utopian world.

 

What would a rational person do?

 

A:  accept a $170 million right now?

 

B: play for minimum wage next year, play for arbritration salary in 2015, 2016, and 2017.  All the while hope you don't suffer a career ending injury thus leaving you with nothing, and wait for a bigger salary after 2017?

 

NO RATIONAL PERSON WOULD TURN THAT DOWN UNLESS THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE.  And Trout is playing too well to be miserable.  Yes, it is about winning.  And yes many people turn down money in order to play for a winner.  However, those people who turn down money are not turning down a guaranteed $170 million.

[stormngt]

Yep. Four years from now many MLB teams will have TV deals equal to, or significantly larger than the Angels' deal. Teams like the Phillies, Mets, Yankees, Dodgers and others could afford to beat Moreno in a bidding war for Trout if they wanted to, and in 2018, those teams will stand a better chance of contending than the Angels.

Yes but four years is a long time to wait and risk injury.  That is why I say the Angels need to do the extension this year.  The longer they wait, the less incentive Trout has to sign.

 

Also a lot could happen in four years.  Four years ago, the Angels were considered one of the best franchises in baseball!

[stormngt]

I doubt JD is a fan of Sosh.  If I'm Arte, I let JD can Sosh and bring in his own guy.  Then let next season decide JD's fate.

 

I think Sosh and the Angels need to part ways, it's better for both.

That makes sense, let JD can Sosh, costing Moreno 25 million.  Bring in your own guy and then decided if you want to keep JD?

 

If JD is canning Sosh, Moreno isn't fireing him for some time!

[Mark68]

It's not necessarily Anaheim that produces that effect AO. Look at the Uptons in Atlanta right now, heck even Heyward is struggling and that was supposed to be one, if not the, best offenses in all of MLB.

 

Morse and Morales were decent hitters too and they haven't been stellar for Seattle?

 

I just think we should get back to building our farm system again (which I know you agree with wholeheartedly) so that we are the ones getting the best years of our hitters and then sending them off to pasture for prospects.

It certainly is not limited to Anaheim.

 

Anybody remember Beltre's years in Seattle? Yeah, me neither.

[gotbeer]

That is fine in dandy in an utopian world.

 

What would a rational person do?

 

A:  accept a $170 million right now?

 

B: play for minimum wage next year, play for arbritration salary in 2015, 2016, and 2017.  All the while hope you don't suffer a career ending injury thus leaving you with nothing, and wait for a bigger salary after 2017?

 

NO RATIONAL PERSON WOULD TURN THAT DOWN UNLESS THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE.  And Trout is playing too well to be miserable.  Yes, it is about winning.  And yes many people turn down money in order to play for a winner.  However, those people who turn down money are not turning down a guaranteed $170 million.

 

Problem is this.  In arbitration he will get around the $10 million in first year arbitration record that Howard got.  And probably around the $17-20 million in arbitration 2 and 3.  So that's $44 million, which sets him for life.  And if you say that's not guaranteed, then why are we going to then guarantee $170 million to someone that will get injured?  

 

He will get paid.  The question will really fall on Trout himself.  Does he want to play in Anaheim?  Because after he gets his $44ish million.  He really has a chance to get a 10/$300+ million plus.  So that's $174 million he'd leave on the table signing now.

[Mark68]

1. He has had 2 off seasons and has made the franchise much much much worse.

2. If he pinned the bullpen hopes on adding Burnett and Madson while subtracting Walden he deserves massive heat. 

3. Hamilton is basically doing what he did 2nd half last year. When the deal was made the overall media reported that Gm's were weary of Hamilton.

4. Wells trade should be a compliment to Cashman not JD.

5. He is the one who signed them so how can they be used to justify anything.

1. This franchise was in horrible shape when he took over. Generally, there is a lag time between organizations being in trouble and it being obvious through performance. When the Phillies won the World Series in 2008, nobody thought they were in such bad shape, but they were, and the last two years, it's become obvious with their on-field performance. Two seasons is not nearly long enough to right the ship. It will probably take another 3 years or so for the minors to start looking like it's bearing fruit again. Besides, how much time was Reagins given?

 

2. I doubt that Madson was what the bullpen hopes were being pinned on. He was a low-risk, high-reward signing that cost a whole $3.5 million. Of course there were risks, but he's not costing much, so why not? Burnett, yeah, I can see it, but then again, the guy averaged 69 appearances per year for the previous 5 years, so it was obvious that he would spend so much time in the DL, right?

 

3. Nobody knows how much influence Arte had on the Hamilton signing. I'm just gonna say that he had a nonzero influence.

 

4. Cashman gave us some money for Wells. None of us thought this was possible. Give the man some credit for taking Wells away from Scioscia and getting SOME money for it.

 

5. While I did not think Pujols and Hamilton were the signings that we needed (I was very vocal for Prince instead of Pujols, and I wanted nothing to do with Hamilton), we all thought we would get some decent years from Pujols before the contract length made it look horrible. NONE of us thought it would take just one year to look bad. Yes, he had been declining beginning around 2011, but it was a slight decline, then another one last year. Most people would take a slight decline from one of the greatest players of all time. This year, whether because of injury or not, his decline has looked more like he jumped off a cliff. As far as Hamilton, he has always looked bad at times, but the good streaks, when he can carry a team, have masked those. Although last year's second-half issues were well-documented, his first two months were lights-out, and led to good overall numbers. I'm sure if his numbers were to end up where they did last year (or even in the same area code), that will take an incredible hot streak, one that could very well carry a team, even this one, to a postseason berth. Is it likely? Of course not, but if it does, whomever was primarily responsible for his signing, whether it was Arte or Jerry, is going to look really good in hindsight.

 

This organization was in trouble when Dipoto took over. To think otherwise is to be in Fantasyland. It's going to take a long time to rebuild the system, which will have to be done from the ground up. That takes time.

 

Do you think the Astros are going to fire their GM after two years? That's how bad the farm system was when Dipoto took over. At least their fan base and ownership realizes it's going to take a long time. In two to three years, they will be in better shape than the Angels. The judgement on Dipoto's job cannot be based solely on the performance of the big club. That would be short-sighted. It has to be judged on the organization as a whole, and that is going to take more than a season and a half to fix.

[Blarg]

Has there been a player that received $17-20 in their 2nd or 3rd year of arbitration?

[gotbeer]

Has there been a player that received $17-20 in their 2nd or 3rd year of arbitration?

 

In I believe year 4 (arbitration 2 since he was a super 2), Howards numbers were $14 vs $18 million.  They settled on a 3 year deal, $15, $19, $20.  Lincecum in year 5, was at $17 vs $21.5 million.  Settled on a 2 year $18, $22.

[Mark68]

Has there been a player that received $17-20 in their 2nd or 3rd year of arbitration?

I'm guessing no, because those that probably would have gotten it signed extensions.