Is There Something Here?

[BTH]

I don’t necessarily believe this, but I’m just gonna throw it out there and see what other people think...

Do Canning and Sandoval have mentality problems on the mound? And if so, might that have to do with where they grew up?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest people in OC have different personalities than, say, people from New York or Boston.

Whenever these two pitch, there doesn’t seem to be a bulldog, fight through it mentality that other pitchers have.

Sandoval leading MLB in unearned runs last year suggests there’s something there.

Is there something here?

[tdawg87]

Sandoval absolutely does. 

Not sure about Canning. He's probably hurt.

[Jason]

Maybe they just aren’t that good of pitchers? It may not be a complicated issue at all. 

[T.G.]

Gerrit Cole grew up in the OC

[Angel Oracle]

What happened to 2023 Canning?

It’s only 3 starts, but this one is an imposter compared to that one.

[Jeremiah]

I don’t think the locale where one grows up has much to do with whether or not one can be a successful pro athlete. Shane Bieber is from Mission Viejo. Gary Carter played HS ball in Fullerton. Matt Chapman is from the OC. Lots of ball players come through Cal State Fullerton. I think it has more to do with how you’re wired and what kind of work ethic you develop as you grow up.

[Vlad27Trout27]

one thing for sure, neither one has command/control. Canning just serves meat balls and Sandavol just walks alot of peope.

[redoctober2002]

3 hours ago, BTH said:

I don’t necessarily believe this, but I’m just gonna throw it out there and see what other people think...

Do Canning and Sandoval have mentality problems on the mound? And if so, might that have to do with where they grew up?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest people in OC have different personalities than, say, people from New York or Boston.

Whenever these two pitch, there doesn’t seem to be a bulldog, fight through it mentality that other pitchers have.

Sandoval leading MLB in unearned runs last year suggests there’s something there.

Is there something here?

Canning is just sucking right now and Sandoval has had issues for at least the past two seasons. Before Sandoval it was Andrew Heaney that would be a mental case on the mound and he's from Oklahoma. So no I don't think it's an OC native issue.

[REDneck]

I'm not buying into that individual players are soft BC of where they are from, 

But, I have always wondered about the locale of this team. The OC, while a great place to live is soft...absolutely zero grit factor.

It's ridiculous that the team is called the LA Angels and that stadium of the 57 is ridiculous, one of the worst in MLB.

The OC has to be one of the most laxed places to play in all of pro sports.

There is zero character!

I will change the subject.

Canning has been notoriously bad to start the season. Why not let him begin his season in AAA until the weather and his arm warms up?

Where are the analytics? This team is ran like a beer league softball team.

If Canning sucks in April than don't run him out there until May.

 

 

[Rollinghard]

Canning problems are due to his delivery. His arm/hand kind of stalls out and batters can see the ball too well. There is zero deception in his delivery. It is like he says, "see the ball, here it comes".

 

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, BTH said:

I don’t necessarily believe this, but I’m just gonna throw it out there and see what other people think...

Do Canning and Sandoval have mentality problems on the mound? And if so, might that have to do with where they grew up?

Canning has a history of being bad out of the gate and his FB velocity is down.  Maybe it's a dead arm thing, maybe he's not 100% but my guess is if the velocity normalizes he goes back to pitching well.

Months -- Game-Level 

I	Split	W	L	W-L%	ERA	G	GS	GF	CG	SHO	SV	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	IBB	SO	HBP	BK	WP	BF	WHIP	SO9	SO/W
	April/March	2	3	.400	6.70	10	9	0	0	0	0	44.1	46	33	33	13	15	0	44	2	0	3	192	1.376	8.9	2.93
	May	8	4	.667	3.83	15	15	0	0	0	0	80.0	68	35	34	14	30	0	80	2	0	5	337	1.225	9.0	2.67
	June	4	5	.444	4.02	14	14	0	0	0	0	78.1	66	37	35	13	20	0	78	7	1	1	323	1.098	9.0	3.90
	July	1	4	.200	7.75	10	9	1	0	0	0	38.1	50	33	33	9	20	0	50	1	0	7	186	1.826	11.7	2.50
	August	2	2	.500	3.70	11	9	0	0	0	0	56.0	55	26	23	8	18	1	52	3	0	2	234	1.304	8.4	2.89
	Sept/Oct	2	4	.333	4.04	9	9	0	0	0	0	49.0	47	23	22	5	18	0	55	1	0	3	209	1.327	10.1	3.06

 

Looks like he shits the bed for a month then does well for a couple months before repeating the cycle.

 

 

[Jay]

5 hours ago, T.G. said:

Gerrit Cole grew up in the OC

and never looked back.

[Angelsfan1984]

Freddie freeman is also from OC, as was trumbo, Geritt Cole and Phil Hughes.
 

Bruce Jenner is from New York and that dude has a vagina now.

rendon is from Texas…he basically had a vagina. Except for the last 5 games and his World Series title. 

[ScottT]

That is... something.

[Reveille1984]

Canning's fastball velocity has been way down this year, so that definitely isn't helping.  He's also almost 28 and has had one serviceable MLB season.  He's just not that good.

Sandoval has always had shitty control and high walk rates.  Weirdly his velocity is way up this year, might be overthrowing.  Similar to Canning, is basically a #3 at his best and more of a 4/5 on average.  Also just not very good most of the time.

[ThisismineScios]

I think they have both settled in to kind of who they are. The thing is, with video and analytics what they are, if you don't have movement and deception, hitters are not going to be fooled. There is just zero way the Red Sox didn't figure Canning out. 

Canning has been barreled/hard hit every year. His FB doesn't move, his Change sits at 88-89, and he regularly rides his slide in the middle of the zone. I watched that first Red Sox game. They had him figured out. Even today, they didn't hit it as hard but they made tons of contact. He just doesn't miss enough bats, and even when he is guys are squaring up the ball when they make contact. To me, it's more like the batter is guessing wrong than not tracking the ball. I think this year they are tracking and he may be tipping a bit. 

Sandoval also has a stupid flat fastball, but his problem is location. Even if he could just locate it, pair it with his Change and his Slider and you'd had a functional arsenal to be a #3/4 guy. Besides his walks, he actually hasn't been a horrible pitcher. But his Fastball is close to the worst pitch in the majors. It's been absolutely awful. It gets crushed, he doesn't strike anyone out with it, and overall it has horrible metrics. 

To me, Sandoval has to do something different with his FB. Likewise Canning needs to make a change. His FB is actually as bad as Sandoval's, and his Slider has been a worthless pitch so far this year. 

[Stradling]

9 hours ago, Reveille1984 said:

Canning's fastball velocity has been way down this year, so that definitely isn't helping.  He's also almost 28 and has had one serviceable MLB season.  He's just not that good.

Sandoval has always had shitty control and high walk rates.  Weirdly his velocity is way up this year, might be overthrowing.  Similar to Canning, is basically a #3 at his best and more of a 4/5 on average.  Also just not very good most of the time.

My argument to the “Sandoval at his best is a #3” is he had a season of 27 starts where he had a 2.91 ERA. That’s not a #3 starter. 

[Blarg]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

My argument to the “Sandoval at his best is a #3” is he had a season of 27 starts where he had a 2.91 ERA. That’s not a #3 starter. 

He has a carer 3.90 ERA. That one fluke year does not define him as the pitcher he is now. Last year and this he isn't even a #3 value pitcher. 

[Angel Oracle]

Neither will likely factor into the future rotation by 2026 anyway.

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, Blarg said:

He has a carer 3.90 ERA. That one fluke year does not define him as the pitcher he is now. Last year and this he isn't even a #3 value pitcher. 

I used his language “at his best”. Which, at his best, he was a full run better than his average. At this point I’d be thrilled if he started pitching to a 3.90 ERA again. 

[Inside Pitch]

 

They really should have Canning snub his toe on a table or diagnose him with "fatigue" so they can IL him and monitor his velocity in a controlled environment then roll him back out there.  He has a history of struggling with his velocity early in the year and sucking ass.

 

 

 

[Stradling]

For what this is worth. The results are the results but it does help explain why Canning is confused. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

He has a carer 3.90 ERA. That one fluke year does not define him as the pitcher he is now. Last year and this he isn't even a #3 value pitcher. 

A 3.90 ERA translates to 111 ERA+.  His FIP 2.71 and xFIP 4.39 are both significantly better than his ERA this year, dude needs to get over his Mike Witt BS and keep his head on straight when adversity hits because other than his FB still getting torqued he's had success with everything else.

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

For what this is worth. The results are the results but it does help explain why Canning is confused. 

I saw that, I also looked at the expected averages in the game-log at baseball-savant -- I didn't watch the game but there were some really wild variances on the expected outcomes.  He seemed to get lucky and unlucky at the same time -- but the FB was getting hit hard pretty much by everyone, so that seems to be an issue regardless.

\

[Blarg]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

A 3.90 ERA translates to 111 ERA+.  His FIP 2.71 and xFIP 4.39 are both significantly better than his ERA this year, dude needs to get over his Mike Witt BS and keep his head on straight when adversity hits because other than his FB still getting torqued he's had success with everything else.

It would be nice if that was who he is now. Last year he managed a 109 ERA+ which is no #3 status. He has Heaney mental fragility which no amount of bullpen or pitch mechanics can fix.