Diamondbacks claim Chris Rodriguez off waivers

[stormngt]

Its not so much i think its a bad move.  Its disappointment.   I was hoping the kid would make it as am Angel.  However, I am not going to say "fire whoever" by letting him go.

The wuestion is who we are keeping on the 40 man that shouldn't be there?

[Angel Oracle]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:43 AM, Chuckster70 said:

Are people really upset about this? 

Don't care how big of an arm you have if you can't stay healthy. 

I feel we're going to see the same thing happen with Sam Bachman in a couple years. 

At least C-Rod wasn’t a #9 overall pick.

That’s the rough part with Bachman.

[Angel Oracle]

17 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

@Inside Pitch, just say it: The Angels are a dumb organization, Perry or no. It is one thing after the other; this is just another instance in a long stream of them. It is not a well-run org, thus the streak of losing seasons.

I don't care what his injury history is, you just don't let go of an upside guy like C-Rod for nothing, especially when you're protecting absolute schlubs. This has a good chance of being equivalent to Pestano for Clevinger.

Or to paraphrase a former president, "A loser organization."

He’s only pitched 130.1 career innings (MiLB and MLB) in over 7 years since being drafted.    It’s hard to see him having any kind of MLB career going forward.

Might be hard to research, but has there ever been a MLB pitcher who had a solid career despite that lack of innings due to injuries, especially one who has basically missed two years because of a shoulder injury?

[Inside Pitch]

17 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

@Inside Pitch, just say it: The Angels are a dumb organization, Perry or no. It is one thing after the other; this is just another instance in a long stream of them. It is not a well-run org, thus the streak of losing seasons.

I don't care what his injury history is, you just don't let go of an upside guy like C-Rod for nothing, especially when you're protecting absolute schlubs. This has a good chance of being equivalent to Pestano for Clevinger.

Or to paraphrase a former president, "A loser organization."

It was a calculated risk that almost worked but one I wouldn't have taken.  I think it was dumb but I'm possibly biased as I've always been high on him, you just don't see guys capable of throwing four legit plus pitches.  Throw in the bulldog shit, the work ethic, the character.  I hope he does well in AZ.

[mmc]

18 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

@Inside Pitch, just say it: The Angels are a dumb organization, Perry or no. It is one thing after the other; this is just another instance in a long stream of them. It is not a well-run org, thus the streak of losing seasons.

I don't care what his injury history is, you just don't let go of an upside guy like C-Rod for nothing, especially when you're protecting absolute schlubs. This has a good chance of being equivalent to Pestano for Clevinger.

Or to paraphrase a former president, "A loser organization."

What reason should anyone have to possibly think CRod will be an impact player or even pitch in a major league game again?  Every time they’ve ramped up his recovery he’s had another setback.  Not worth using a 40 man spot on.

[Angels 1961]

On 10/31/2023 at 12:20 PM, Angelsjunky said:

I'm so glad we kept Kenny Rosenberg and Eduardo Escobar.

Escobar will be gone but Rosenberg pitched pretty decent in September.

[mmc]

59 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Its not so much i think its a bad move.  Its disappointment.   I was hoping the kid would make it as am Angel.  However, I am not going to say "fire whoever" by letting him go.

The wuestion is who we are keeping on the 40 man that shouldn't be there?

Our current offseason 40 man:

Pitchers: (20)

Anderson, Bachman, Caceres, Canning, Daniel, Detmers, Estevez, Herget, Ingram, Joyce, Marte, Mederos, Quijada, Rosenberg, Sandoval, Silseth, Soriano, Suarez, Wantz, Warren

Catchers (2):

O’Hoppe, Thaiss

Infielders (10):

Cabbage, Drury, Fletcher, Neto, Paris, Rendon, Rengifo, Schanuel, Soto, Stefanic

Outfielders (5):

Adams, Adell, Moniak, Trout, Ward

 

3 spots now, 2 if Stassi gets activated off the restricted list.  Need spots to first add any players we want to protect from R5 draft, then will need to clear spots for any additional offseason acquisitions

[m0nkey]

Corbin Carroll, Jordan Lawlar, Druw Jones, and now Chris Rodriguez baby! Dbacks looking to repeat as NL Champs in 2024 and beyond!

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

He’s only pitched 130.1 career innings (MiLB and MLB) in over 7 years since being drafted.    It’s hard to see him having any kind of MLB career going forward.

Might be hard to research, but has there ever been a MLB pitcher who had a solid career despite that lack of innings due to injuries, especially one who has basically missed two years because of a shoulder injury?

Its hard to find comps because his situation was kind of odd.  A true 17 year old so that first year wasn't even a season, then the Covid season.  But its not difficult to find guys who sat out a couple years and have made it.

Lets check in on Jose Soriano in a couple years.  Sadrac Franco too.   Neither guy has the same upside, both guys have missed a ton of time. 

 

[mmc]

Literally 3 different “setbacks” since his most recent injury

 

[Angelsjunky]

49 minutes ago, mmc said:

What reason should anyone have to possibly think CRod will be an impact player or even pitch in a major league game again?  Every time they’ve ramped up his recovery he’s had another setback.  Not worth using a 40 man spot on.

I get it, and I think the chances of him every being truly healthy are very low -- as I implied. But my point is that I'd rather keep a guy with his upside and only 10% of fulfilling it than some of the scrub-level players the Angels have on the 40-man roster. The Kenny Rosenbergs of the world are a dime a dozen and easily replaced; C-Rod isn't. Not to mention I'm not sure anyone would have claimed Rosenberg (or Wantz or Warren), and if they did, well, you've got other guys with similar talent.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

It was a calculated risk that almost worked but one I wouldn't have taken.  I think it was dumb but I'm possibly biased as I've always been high on him, you just don't see guys capable of throwing four legit plus pitches.  Throw in the bulldog shit, the work ethic, the character.  I hope he does well in AZ.

Well, I do think you are a bit biased with him - which is unusual for you - but I also get it, and I trust your talent assessment. I've said my piece already, though (to mmc above). 

[bruin5]

There was a video clip of his last or one of his last times pitching this year.  His biggest problem is his delivery which is on the violent side. He (or the Angels) didn’t seem to change anything this year. 

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Well, I do think you are a bit biased with him - which is unusual for you - but I also get it, and I trust your talent assessment. I've said my piece already, though (to mmc above). 

I am, partially because I'm aware of the nature of his injuries.  The back thing was something the Angels gambled on rehabbing and ended up needing to perform the surgery.  The shoulder cap issue is both a lengthy rehab and one where guys tend to recover -- that said shoulders are STILL a crap shoot, I liked that the Angels played it safe with him.

But yeah, he didn't have any peers in the system when it came to pitch quality.  Pitchers are both bigger risks and easier bets in some ways.  A hitter misses two years early in his development and he may never reach his potential.  A pitcher misses two years and so long as he has the ability to make hitters miss he'll be fine.  People believed it was nuts to think he could go from A ball to getting MLB hitters out then he did it -- while not throwing his best pitch at all.

I'd be less disappointed had I not been getting updated the entire way through, including the planned shutdown BEFORE he had even made his first appearance back.  

Like you said - any of Warren, Marte, or any of the TJ crew could have been exposed and would have likely passed through waivers.

[T.G.]

The Chris Rodriguez thing reminds me a LITTLE BIT of what happened to Mark Prior.  Granted, Prior did have a brief MLB career, but he was another guy who showed so much promise only to have his career cut short by shoulder injuries.  He tried several times to come back from it, but never could stay healthy. 

[Inside Pitch]

56 minutes ago, mmc said:

Literally 3 different “setbacks” since his most recent injury

 

It was my understanding he was absolutely shut down in May -- he was showing inflammation in the back of the shoulder -- not the area he had surgery on but still the shoulder was barking at him and they saw no point in pushing it. He continued to throw through the second "setback.  The one I find dubious as all get out was the shut down that came after it had already been said he would throw once then be shut down, but was seen throwing in AZ by multiple people who claimed the Angels were seemingly masking it was him.

Whatever, he's a D-Back now.  Something something spilled milk.

 

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, T.G. said:

The Chris Rodriguez thing reminds me a LITTLE BIT of what happened to Mark Prior.  Granted, Prior did have a brief MLB career, but he was another guy who showed so much promise only to have his career cut short by shoulder injuries.  He tried several times to come back from it, but never could stay healthy. 

Mark Prior has never blamed Dusty Baker but he should have.

His injuries are even more interesting -- it started with a collision with Marcus Giles while he was running the bases that saw him land really awkwardly-- ended up costing him a month with a shoulder injury and elbow pain.  Dude finished the season super strong but then came back in 2004 still having elbow pain and an achillies injury that cost him a few starts but the dude was still completely dominant until he took that batted ball off his elbow.  It was hit so hard it bounced off his elbow and the Cubs' 3B made the catch for an out. 

I don't remember how far back they were but the Cubs tried to save their season by bringing him early -- dude had a solid first game back then never looked the same.  He later admitted he was throwing in pain the entire time and altered his mechanics which may have ultimately led to the shoulder injury that ultimately ended his career.

Mark Prior was lauded for having what some called near perfect lower body pitching mechanics and the dreaded "inverted W" flat arm throwing motion.  It's interesting that he never had a single injury until that collision with Giles and that he never again was able to pitch without some level of pain.

 

[Inside Pitch]

Also -- WTF do that call that BS an inverted W and not just an M...  baseball is always trying to be slicker than they really are.  That thing looks like an M...

[Angelsjunky]

Oh man, Mark Prior. A beautiful pitcher and could have been right there with Roy Halladay and Johan Santana as the connective tissue of aces between Clemens/Johnson/Pedro/Maddux and the Kershaw/Verlander/Scherzer generation.

And as @T.G. said, CRod is only a bit similar to him, but there's also unfortunate truth to the fact that for every guy that makes it, there are more who don't - and the sort of nagging and recurrent injuries that he's had so far don't bode well for the future. But you rightly point out, @Inside Pitch, that his injuries are varied -- it isn't like it is just his elbow (or whatever) again and again. But still, I wouldn't bet money on him ever being consistently healthy. But because of the off chance he does eventually put it together, and given his talent, it is pretty hard to excuse this blunder by the Angels.

Actually, I'm reminded a bit of...Jo Adell. In a way, Adell is the hitter equivalent to CRod, except that instead of injuries he has other skill-related issues. But the talent is there, and while he's unlikely to be the guy we hoped for a few years ago, he's still got enough talent that I wouldn't try to sneak him through waivers before, say, Preston Palmeiro.

[AngelStew43]

My point in this whole discussion is that the Angels have other players on their roster with considerably less potential than CRod.  

They could have outrighted any one of them, and continued to let CRod rehab through the winter, and into spring training next season before making a determination as to where he fit in the organization. 

[mmc]

13 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

My point in this whole discussion is that the Angels have other players on their roster with considerably less potential than CRod.  

They could have outrighted any one of them, and continued to let CRod rehab through the winter, and into spring training next season before making a determination as to where he fit in the organization. 

If the organizational no longer believes he will be able to pitch in the majors, his potential is 0

[Wisconsin27]

6 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I get it, and I think the chances of him every being truly healthy are very low -- as I implied. But my point is that I'd rather keep a guy with his upside and only 10% of fulfilling it than some of the scrub-level players the Angels have on the 40-man roster. The Kenny Rosenbergs of the world are a dime a dozen and easily replaced; C-Rod isn't. Not to mention I'm not sure anyone would have claimed Rosenberg (or Wantz or Warren), and if they did, well, you've got other guys with similar talent.

You couldn't have worded my pending reply to MMC any better.  To me, it's more about what we are "protecting" in terms of potential help versus the rather small chance of what he could become.  Entirely different discussion if we were loaded at the younger levels.  But we're not.  

As has been stated, we should be looking for guys from other teams with this profile given our baren organization.

[Wisconsin27]

3 hours ago, mmc said:

If the organizational no longer believes he will be able to pitch in the majors, his potential is 0

I can appreciate your faith in our organization's abilities.  I wish I had the same faith, but two decades of incredibly questionable decision-making has me quite down.  And yes, I believe it starts with Arte, but that has been regurgitated to death.

[Angels in 2030]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:31 PM, Tank said:

i think in this case it depends on the severity of the injury. the angels staff couldn't help him get healthy. maybe the folks in arizona can figure out something about his health that the halos couldn't.

as far as looking for this kind of player from other teams, someone with quite an injury history,  i'm not sure that's a good strategy.

I respectfully disagree.  We need all the talent we can get...and finding it in our farm system and via FA is not happening anytime soon.  

The real problem is that the Angel's organization does not have the development staff and medical/etc. staff to turn these types of guys around.  Same with guys that just need a tweak, change. etc. from a good development staff.  It's the other way around -- guys leave and turn things around elsewhere.  It's the same theme/problem for the angels organization as a whole -- heavy at top with no foundation to support it. 

[tdawg87]

We have several floating turds and we flushed a lottery ticket.